TERRY GROSS, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. It's become a new FRESH AIR holiday tradition to invite musicians we love to play some of their favorite Christmas songs. It started two years ago when Ahmir "Questlove" Thompson put together a Christmas playlist for us and talked about why he chose those songs. Last year, David Byrne played his favorite Christmas songs. We'll listen back to that tomorrow. We continued that tradition earlier in the show with Jon Batiste at the piano. Now we're going to listen back to Questlove and his Christmas playlist.
In addition to his many credits, Questlove is perhaps the most famous, popular and in-demand DJ. Questlove co-founded the band The Roots, which, among other things, is the house band for "The Tonight Show With Jimmy Fallon." He's also written several books related to music, including one published earlier this year called "Hip-Hop Is History." He won an Oscar for his documentary "Summer Of Soul," about the 1969 Harlem Cultural Festival. His new documentary, "Sly Lives! (AKA The Burden Of Black Genius), about Sly Stone will premiere next month at the Sundance Film Festival. On January 27, NBC will broadcast Questlove's new documentary called "Ladies & Gentlemen... 50 Years Of SNL Music." It will also stream on Peacock.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: Questlove, welcome back to FRESH AIR. Thanks so much for doing this and choosing music for us. Why don't we start with a song that you selected. And this is a song by DRAM and his mother. And it's "Silver Bells."
QUESTLOVE: Yes.
GROSS: And I have to tell you, there's so much really schlocky Christmas music. And that's why we're so excited to have you on the show doing this, 'cause you're choosing really interesting stuff.
QUESTLOVE: Thank you.
GROSS: So the song "Silver Bells" is kind of high on my list of just, you know, schlocky and just annoying. It's one of the reasons I don't like a lot of Christmas songs.
QUESTLOVE: (Laughter).
GROSS: This is a great recording. So tell us about the recording and why you chose it.
QUESTLOVE: Yeah. It's a very unique recording. DRAM is kind of the post-neo soul set, like, one of the artists that I really dig his work. He has a really soulful voice. When I listen to music, I like rawness. I like mistakes. I don't think there's good notes and bad notes or flat notes or sharp or pitchy notes, but this is just - it's almost like they're allowing us - him and his mom are allowing us to sort of eavesdrop in at the family gathering where they're just singing to each other. This is a really raw version of the song. So it kind of hits home to me.
GROSS: Let's hear it. Here we go. So this is "Silver Bells" - a good version of it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SILVER BELLS")
BIGBABYMOM: (Vocalizing). (Singing) City sidewalks, busy sidewalks dressed in holiday style - in the air, there's a feeling of Christmas.
DRAM: (Vocalizing).
BIGBABYMOM: (Singing) Children laughing, people passing, meeting smile after smile, and on every street corner, you hear, whoa, those silver bells.
DRAM: (Singing) Silver bells.
BIGBABYMOM: (Singing) Silver bells.
DRAM: (Singing) Silver bells.
DRAM AND BIGBABYMOM: (Singing) It's Christmastime in the city.
BIGBABYMOM: (Singing) Oh, ring-a-ling.
DRAM: (Singing) Ring-a-ling.
BIGBABYMOM: (Singing) Hear them ring.
DRAM: (Singing) Hear them ring.
DRAM AND BIGBABYMOM: (Singing) Soon it will be Christmas Day.
GROSS: When you were growing up and you were touring with your father's band, did you spend a lot of Christmases performing?
QUESTLOVE: Yeah. Like, we would often have Christmases in very unusual places. Probably one of the best places ever - there was a resort in San Juan, Puerto Rico, called the Dupont Plaza. And my father would do a residency down there. And, I believe, like, back in '82, one of my favorite Christmases ever - like, it was real tropical. And that was the first tropical Christmas I had. Like, I spent two weeks with my family, although they were going for, like, four months. I would fly down there occasionally. And this is the year that Michael Jackson's "Thriller" came out. So, you know, it was a simpler time, where buying Ahmir one record was, like, the entire world to him. You know, now I have to buy, like, an entire library's jazz collection from, like, some university. But back in '82, you could just give me a "Thriller" record, and that was, like, everything to me.
GROSS: Well, let's get to another song on your playlist. And this is "Disco Claus," which is by The Bionic I.
QUESTLOVE: Yes.
GROSS: And it sounds more like funk Santa than disco Claus.
QUESTLOVE: It is. You know, there's these two really influential DJs that have really inspired my DJ career. They're from the Boston area. They're called Amir and Kon. And those guys, like, they're the DJ that, like, your favorite DJs' DJs listen to. And they're always, like, playing, like, really obscure music that's really under the radar. And I believe DJ Amir is the one that put me on to this particular piece, which, you know - it has a good drum break to it. And I think it came out in 1977 by a group called The Bionic I. Yeah.
GROSS: OK. Let's hear it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DISCO CLAUS")
THE BIONIC I: (Rapping) It was the night before Christmas when all through the pad, not a record was spinning. Things really looked bad. (Singing) Disco Claus came into town, funking all the toys around. Susie Q and GI Joe funking under the mistletoe. Hey, ain't nothing silent about this night. Rudolph with your nose so bright, disco through the town tonight. I said, get on, Rudolph. We got to get through this town. Yeah. I say it's about that time. It's about that time. Yeah, I said I'm going down.
GROSS: That's "Disco Claus" by Bionic, one of the songs chosen for us by Questlove. You've said that as a creator, you're 98% groove and 2% melody. And the track you just played is very much groove.
QUESTLOVE: Very much so, yes.
GROSS: Yeah.
QUESTLOVE: I mean, drums are - that's my calling card, you know? And for me, there's a lot of really obscure Christmas records that might, like - they'll do their version of, like, "Little Drummer Boy" or something like that.
GROSS: "Little Drummer Boy" is one of the Christmas songs - the original recording of it - that just really, really drove me crazy.
QUESTLOVE: Really (laughter)?
GROSS: Oh, yeah. They played it so much on the radio when I was growing up. And yet - tell me you like it?
QUESTLOVE: It's hard to escape it. Yeah, all throughout, like, first and second grade, like, every Christmas pageant, I think it was expected that I was supposed to play little drummer boy.
GROSS: Oh, because you were the drummer.
QUESTLOVE: Because I was a drummer. Right.
GROSS: Oh, no.
QUESTLOVE: Exactly, exactly. But, you know, oftentimes in school at the Christmas pageant, even if it were, like, something totally the opposite, like, our production of "The Nutcracker" or something like that, like, they would find some sort of excuse to, you know, give 8-year-old Amir a drumming spotlight in the program.
GROSS: Oh, boy. Well, let's hear a song that's lyrically the opposite of "It's The Most Happiest Time Of The Year." So this is James Brown's "Santa Claus, Santa Claus" from 1968.
QUESTLOVE: This is so hilarious to me.
GROSS: Yeah.
QUESTLOVE: Sorry.
GROSS: Why is it hilarious to you?
QUESTLOVE: (Laughter) This song - this particular song is my - one, this is my introduction to Christmas music. Two, it's my introduction to James Brown.
GROSS: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So the first time you heard a Christmas song...
QUESTLOVE: Yeah. Yeah. I know.
GROSS: ...And the first time you hear James Brown was this.
QUESTLOVE: Yeah. My first James Brown was this. No, it was just that - you know what it is? You know, I was a kid of the Muppets era. And there was a tortured genius musician on "Sesame Street," and his name was Don Music. And he was always full of self-doubt and insecurity. And whenever he couldn't find the right words or the right chord, he'd just, like - you know, he'd bang his head on the piano like a tortured soul. You know, it was exaggerated. So I used to think it was funny.
And James Brown has a voice similar to my grandmother's. So she's a very animated woman. So, you know, as a baby, I thought that was Grandmom singing all those songs because, like, James Brown really belts like a female gospel singer - you know what I mean? - like, with this high notes and his yelling. So when I hear this very, very depressing song about misfortune, like - this is the Murphy's law of Christmas songs. I don't know. I think my 3-year-old self just thought that Grandmom was performing, like, a comedy skit or something like that. So I added that song for the ironic reasons. Like, I think this is one of the most hilarious songs ever because James Brown is overselling the - he's really overselling the woe-is-me character of the song. So...
GROSS: Yeah. He's asking Santa and the Lord, why does he have to suffer so? So...
QUESTLOVE: Right, exactly (laughter).
GROSS: All right. Let's hear it.
QUESTLOVE: All right.
GROSS: This is James Brown from 1968.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SANTA CLAUS, SANTA CLAUS")
JAMES BROWN: (Singing) I've wanted so many things I wanted so, but you experience the wants when you live in the ghetto. But now I understand what it means to be a man, so there's one thing I'd like to know. I've been good. Lord, have mercy - so good, you know. Why, oh, why do I have to suffer so? Santa Claus, Santa Claus, please, please, please don't make me, don't make me suffer so. Christmas come but once a year. Oh, won't somebody please, please, please bring me some Christmas cheer? I need a Christmas cheer. Santa Claus, please, please don't make me suffer so - can't take it no more.
GROSS: That was James Brown from 1968. I'm still processing that this is, like, your introduction to James Brown.
QUESTLOVE: Yes. See; after that, then I wanted to hear all the songs where he's, like, screaming and crying.
GROSS: Well, let's take a short break here, and then we'll talk some more. If you're just joining us, my guest is Questlove, and he'll play more Christmas recordings after we take a short break. This is fresh air.
(SOUNDBITE OF MARCUS ROBERTS TRIO'S "CAROL OF THE BELLS")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my 2022 interview with Questlove, who played recordings from the Christmas playlist he put together for us. He's cofounder of the hip-hop band The Roots, the house band for "The Tonight Show With Jimmy Fallon." He won an Oscar for his documentary "Summer Of Soul." He's written several books about music, including his latest, "Hip-Hop Is History."
And he was a producer of the original cast recording of "Hamilton" and much more, some of which we'll talk about a little bit later. Right now let's get back to some Christmas music. This is another very unusual recording with a story behind it. It's called "Santa Claus Is A Black Man," and it's by Akim and Teddy Vann from 1917.
QUESTLOVE: Teddy Vann, her father. Yeah.
GROSS: Yeah, Teddy Vann, her father. And she was - what? - 5 when she recorded this.
QUESTLOVE: She was 5 when she did this. So, you know, Akim Vann is - you know, most would know her - she's a staple in the Prospect Heights area because she's, like - she has a - she's the owner of a really awesome bakery. It's called The Bakery on Bergen, and it's in Prospect Heights. And so - but the weirdest thing was back when Wendy Williams, the personality Wendy Williams, was a DJ on Hot 97
QUESTLOVE: on Hot 97. This is, like, in the '90s. She had a Christmas-themed show once. And I remember they played this song called "Santa Claus Is A Black Man." And I called the station and just left a note like, I don't know if you guys know who I am and whatever. This is Questlove of the Roots, and I got to know the name of that song. And shockingly, I think, like, two days later, they emailed me back and sent me a cassette copy of the song, because that's the times we were living in. And what's also notable about this song is that I believe that singer Luther Vandross, who at the time was a local singer and, ironically, the one act I had to leave off of "Summer Of Soul," he's also singing background on this song.
GROSS: Oh, oh. Well, apparently Teddy Vann, Akim's father...
QUESTLOVE: Yeah.
GROSS: ...Wrote one of Luther Vandross' hits?
QUESTLOVE: Yeah, "Power Of Love." Yeah, yeah.
GROSS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I could see why. OK, I could see why he was singing backup on this.
QUESTLOVE: Yeah.
GROSS: OK. All right. So you loved about this song what?
QUESTLOVE: Well, I just love the absolute innocence of it. Like, similar to "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus." This is Christmas through the eyes of a child who - you know, the whole point is that kids don't know that their parents are really Santa Claus. So, you know, this is - besides "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus," this is sort of another song in that vein where, you know...
GROSS: He looked just like you, Daddy (laughter).
QUESTLOVE: Yeah, she doesn't realize...
GROSS: YEAH
QUESTLOVE: ...That her dad is actually Santa Claus, so it's a cute song.
GROSS: Yeah, that he's dressed as Santa Claus. OK.
QUESTLOVE: Yeah.
GROSS: So let's hear.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SANTA CLAUS IS A BLACK MAN")
AKIM: (Singing) Hey, you want to hear something that's out of sight? You know what I found out last night? It's when Mama turned out the light. I went in the living room to see what the noise that woke up me and I saw by the Christmas tree, Santa Claus is Black man. Santa Claus is a Black man, and he's handsome like my daddy, too. Santa Claus is a Black man, Santa Claus is a Black man. And I found out, that's why I'm telling you. Mama must've met Santa Claus before because they started dancing all over the floor, and I fell straight back to the door.
GROSS: We're listening to my 2022 interview with Questlove. We'll hear more music from his Christmas playlist after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MATT WILSON'S "YOU'RE A MEAN ONE MR. GRINCH")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to the interview I recorded in 2022 with Ahmir Questlove Thompson playing songs from the Christmas playlist he put together for us in 2022.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: So let's get to Stevie Wonder. I know you love Stevie Wonder, and he's in your film
QUESTLOVE: Yes
GROSS: ...Performing in "Summer Of Soul." And this is a promotional disc from Britain. It's a kind of Christmas Greetings song.
QUESTLOVE: Yeah.
GROSS: Christmas greetings message - it's not even a whole song. So tell us about the origin of this.
QUESTLOVE: you know why I chose this? Stevie Wonder is world famous for his unique jingles for radio stations. You know, if you search the internet high and low, you can find some that he's done over the years and over the decades. So these jingles, there's actually a Philadelphia version of this particular jingle that I grew up with, and that's the thing that's always close to my heart.
So there was a point in time in which Stevie Wonder might take time out to craft maybe somewhere between 30 to 50 individualized, customized radio station jingles for, you know, the territories that were playing his music the most. And this is sort of a companion piece to the Marvin Gaye "Christmas In The City" bit, of which this is Stevie Wonder playing synthesizer. This time he's playing a polyphonic synthesizer, which gives him the ability to hit all the notes together. So this is kind of the opposite. This is when synthesizers get in the right hands of its creator.
GROSS: (Laughter) OK, here's Stevie Wonder.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HAPPY HOLIDAYS (UK PROMOTIONAL SINGLE)")
STEVIE WONDER: Hi, this is Stevie Wonder. On behalf of the Motown family, I'd like to say (singing) happy holiday from all of us to you.
GROSS: I wish I could hear more of that, but I guess there isn't more of that.
QUESTLOVE: Very brief. Sometimes, you know, you can make a point in 26 seconds. I mean, look at the Ramones. They made a life-changing record, and not one song is over two minutes. So, you know, I think more artists need to follow suit and figure - and challenge themselves to make impactful art in less than, you know, the normal time.
GROSS: Do you think he did these promotional recordings because he wanted to or because the record company urged him to? Or because it would, like, get him more airplay?
QUESTLOVE: Yeah, I mean, Stevie Wonder came from - Stevie Wonder not only came from, like, the first generation of Motown, but he also came from the first generation of a professional Black record company that had to cross every T and dot every I. So, you know, not only did you have to release your single, you had to make a mono version of it, a stereo version of it. And then, some of these songs, you know, you took time out to sing the Spanish versions of them. You took time out to sing the Italian version. Like, I have a collection of Stevie Wonder singles in other languages.
QUESTLOVE: just maximizing on your appeal. And Stevie Wonder had the means and the technology to just knock this all out. So, you know, I can imagine that this level of creativity was his bread and butter.
GROSS: So I'd like to close with another song. And I'm thinking, like, do you have a favorite - and I guess I'll get a little churchy here. Do you have a favorite, like, real Christmas song that is, say, like, a gospel song? Because I know you love Mahalia Jackson - she's in "Summer Of Soul."
QUESTLOVE: Yeah.
GROSS: And Mavis Staples. So is there a song, like, from that tradition that you'd like to end with?
QUESTLOVE: You know, there's so many to choose from. I will say, though, there's a rendition of "Silent Night" that's done by The Temptations. It's their '73 version with Dennis Edwards singing lead vocals. And it's almost unspoken - like, every Black household in the '70s, that's the only version of "Silent Night" that exists. A good friend of mine says that if the first three words of any ad lib from a soul singer are the words in my mind, then you know the abyss levels of deep that that version of the song is going to be. And that's exactly what Dennis Edwards does. The fact that his first three words have nothing to do with "Silent Night," which is in my mind - which is kind of like a go-to, like, I'm going to get real deep for you here, you know, before I start sermonizing. Like, that's a warning that you're about to get something special. The Temptations' version, their slow version of "Silent Night" is damn near a religion in Black households.
GROSS: Oh, thank you for choosing that. Questlove, it's always such a great treat when you're on our show. Thank you so much for choosing music for us.
QUESTLOVE: Thank you, Terry.
GROSS: Yeah. It's just always such a pleasure to have you on our show.
QUESTLOVE: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SILENT NIGHT")
THE TEMPTATIONS: 'Twas the night before Christmas. And all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. (Singing) In my mind, I want you to be free. For all of our friends, would to listen to me? Now, hear what I say. We wish you a merry Christmas to each - to all of you - one of you. Silent night, holy night. All is calm. All is bright...
GROSS: Questlove is a founding member of the band the Roots and the band's drummer. They're the house band for "The Tonight Show With Jimmy Fallon." Next month, his documentary about Sly Stone, called "Sly Lives! (AKA The Burden Of Black Genius)", will premiere at the Sundance Film Festival. And his documentary about music from "Saturday Night Live," called "Ladies & Gentlemen... 50 Years of SNL Music," will be broadcast January 27 on NBC, and then will stream on Peacock. You can find Questlove's complete Christmas playlist on our website, freshair.npr.org, or in the show notes on the podcast. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, we'll listen back to the interview I recorded one year ago in which David Byrne, cofounder and front man of the band Talking Heads, played us some of his favorite Christmas songs.
FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer today is Adam Staniszewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Baldonado, Sam Briger, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our cohost is Tonya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SILENT NIGHT")
THE TEMPTATIONS: (Singing) Holy night, shepherds quake at the sight, glory streams from heaven afar, heavenly hosts sing hallelujah. Christ the Savior is born...
(SOUNDBITE OF MARCUS ROBERTS TRIO'S "LET IT SNOW! LET IT SNOW! LET IT SNOW!") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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