ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
We're going to take a closer look now at how cutting federal jobs is playing out in Western states, where the U.S. government owns half or more of all the land. In some towns, the U.S. Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management are among the biggest employers. Unions representing federal workers are suing to get the positions reinstated, but the cuts are also popular in some Western states where leaders and voters have complained about bloated government. NPR's Kirk Siegler is watching all this from his base in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Kirk.
KIRK SIEGLER, BYLINE: Hey, Ari.
SHAPIRO: What jobs are being cut out there?
SIEGLER: Well, there seems to be some targeting of jobs in the U.S. Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management that mention work around climate change. But the big takeaway here is employees who are on probation - haven't worked in the agency or in that role for at least a year. And sources are telling me that in the Forest Service, supervisors are actually appealing to try to get some of these reinstated, particularly related to wildfires. But, Ari, there's just a lot of confusion - in answer to your question - over how many people have actually been let go in the Forest Service alone. The Trump administration is telling us it's about 2,000.
If we zero in on the Salmon-Challis National Forest here in Idaho, which is famous for its weeklong floats of the Wild and Scenic Salmon River, the union is telling me 25 federal lands jobs were cut there around the town of Salmon, which is, you know, a big deal for a community of about 3,000 people or so. And one of them, Ari, is Maggie Wertheimer. She's a biologist who's been working to control noxious weeds, which are a big fuel hazard for wildfires. Let's listen to her.
MAGGIE WERTHEIMER: As the summer gets rolling and people want to use the land for recreation or hunting or fishing, they're going to feel the absence of people, boots-on-the-ground work being done, because that's who was terminated.
SIEGLER: And, Ari, Wertheimer moved to Idaho about a year ago to take her first full-time job with the U.S. government. She told me she's now in limbo, living in Salmon, which is a town that, in her words, has conflicting emotions about her job as a federal employee and even the U.S. government's role in places like this.
SHAPIRO: Tell us more about those conflicting emotions. What does she mean by that?
SIEGLER: Well, this is not unique for Salmon or the rural West. I mean, there's long-standing resentment toward federal lands agencies like the Forest Service. I mean, in Salmon, you could draw a line straight back to the mid-'90s, when the town's last timber mill closed. And some people are still putting more blame on environmental laws for shutting down the industry than, say, mechanization or imports from Canada. And, you know, whether it's rural Idaho, rural Oregon, there's kind of this attitude out there right now that, well, you know, we had to deal with it when our mills closed, so you guys in the Forest Service and the BLM can now deal with these cuts.
SHAPIRO: In some red states, like Georgia and Texas, we've seen members of Congress get an earful at town halls about some of...
SIEGLER: Right.
SHAPIRO: ...These job cuts. Is the response more muted where you are in Idaho?
SIEGLER: Well, there have been well-attended rallies for federal workers, including in a mountain town, just the other day, north of me here in Boise. But these have generally tended to be in communities with more transplants, more connection to outdoor recreation and ski resorts. I will say, Ari, Democrats in blue Western states - like Colorado, California - are speaking out. But Republican leaders in states like this - Wyoming, Montana - seem to be all in, saying Trump and Elon Musk are cutting a bloated bureaucracy. Montana Congressman Ryan Zinke is one of them. He was secretary of the interior, as you recall, under the first Trump term. Here he is speaking on NBC Montana.
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RYAN ZINKE: I think it was a good thing to say, all stop, let's evaluate. Let's not waste money. Let's make sure the jobs are in the right place.
SIEGLER: That said, Ari, you can tell lawmakers like Zinke are having to walk a fine political line right now. Their states are hugely dependent on federal funding for national parks, tourism, wildfires. And make no mistake, the atmosphere out here is tense. And on the left, there are, you know, some unfounded conspiracy theories, even too, so far, that all these cuts are intended to make the federal lands' agencies look like they can't function, so that will just bolster the case to sell off these lands or transfer them to states.
SHAPIRO: That's NPR's Kirk Siegler in Boise. Thank you.
SIEGLER: You're welcome, Ari. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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