AILSA CHANG, HOST:
American and Russian negotiators met in Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia today, and on the agenda was organizing a ceasefire with Ukraine in the Black Sea. The closed-door talks followed American consultations with the Ukrainian delegation on Sunday, also about a ceasefire. Now, both sides have made ceasefire pledges before, and both sides have not met them. So let's ask our correspondents Eleanor Beardsley in Kyiv and Charles Maynes in Moscow for insight on what this all might actually mean. Hey to both of you.
ELEANOR BEARDSLEY, BYLINE: Hello to you, Ailsa.
CHARLES MAYNES, BYLINE: Hi.
CHANG: All right, Charles, can we start with you? Can you just tell us more about today's talks?
MAYNES: Yeah. You know, the U.S.' goal going into these meetings was to negotiate a partial maritime ceasefire in the Black Sea. Russia had made clear it was willing to explore a return to the contours of this so-called Black Sea Grain Initiative. That agreement was crafted by the United Nations with backing from Turkey in 2022. And it allowed safe passage and inspection of ships carrying grain and fertilizer through the Black Sea, really, at a moment when there was a global food shortage.
The deal eventually collapsed amid Russian complaints the agreement benefited Ukraine while failing to lift sanction-related restrictions on Russian agricultural trade. But it appears the White House hasn't reassured Russia enough on that front, at least not yet. The Kremlin says, despite some 10 hours of discussions, no documents will be signed.
CHANG: OK, and Eleanor, as we mentioned, there were talks with Ukraine on Sunday. What was the focus there?
BEARDSLEY: Well, you know, Ukraine was the first to agree to a comprehensive ceasefire - so land, sea and air. The Kremlin did not agree with that. And Ukraine has been pushing to broaden what has been agreed upon - a ceasefire with energy facilities. It's trying to broaden that to include civilian infrastructure, like railways and ports, and also cities. People are increasingly doubtful that these talks are sincere because of Russia's recent attacks on Ukraine cities.
Over the weekend, there was a massive drone attack on Kyiv that killed three people, including a 5-year-old. And today, a missile hit residential areas in the northeastern town of Sumy, including a school and a hospital. And this has really undermined what little faith Ukrainians had in this process with the Russians.
You know, I witnessed that drone swarm Saturday night and went to an apartment block that had been hit and where people died the next day. And people I talked to do not believe Russia is sincere about the peace or even a ceasefire. And today, a Ukrainian parliament member said Putin is paying lip service to the Trump administration's call for a truce, but his actions show something completely different.
CHANG: All right, so a lot of distrust there. Well, Charles, what are Russia's key demands at this point? Like, how is the Kremlin framing these negotiations?
MAYNES: Well, the Kremlin spokesman today said that Russia values the American diplomatic efforts, but it made clear that they saw this as a long process - so with more talks, more negotiations needed to work out a range of technicalities towards an eventual ceasefire. In the meantime, Russia doesn't seem to be offering much of anything in the way of concessions. And maybe the question is, why should they?
You know, the Trump administration appears to agree with them on many of Russia's core demands. We've already heard Trump say no to NATO membership for Ukraine and talk about Ukraine making territorial concessions to Russia. Well, this weekend, the White House's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, in an interview with former Fox News host Tucker Carlson, went further. Witkoff endorsed Russia's seizure of four Ukrainian territories based on referendum votes the U.S. and, indeed, the entire West, had regarded as a complete sham.
CHANG: Yeah. Meanwhile, as Eleanor notes, Russia continues to attack, right?
MAYNES: Right, and it doesn't look like that will change. You know, there's this larger argument you hear in Moscow - why compromise what the Kremlin seems to think it can take on the battlefield? So these temporary ceasefire proposals, whether they hold up or not, at least address two areas - oil facilities, gas facilities and, say, attacks on naval ships, where Russia has, you know, remained vulnerable to Ukrainian attacks.
Critics will say the Kremlin is now slow walking on Trump's larger goal of a full ceasefire, while Putin presses Russia's current military advantage. You know, meanwhile, he seems to be finding some sympathy in Washington for his larger goal, a neutered NATO presence near Russia's borders. But really, that can only come through negotiations with Trump. And the process itself, you know, seems to restore Russia's stature as a global power on equal footing with the U.S.
CHANG: You know, talking to both of you, I'm just struck by how different everything feels with the Trump administration compared to the last three years. Like, not just this focus on ceasefire talks from the U.S., but also the warmth from the U.S. towards Russia compared to - towards Ukraine these days, right? Like, how are people in Moscow and Kyiv taking in this whole new dynamic?
BEARDSLEY: Well, Ailsa, you're absolutely right about that. You know, the Ukrainians feel like they're negotiating a totally new landscape, and it's very difficult. The Biden administration was always sympathetic to their struggle, while the Trump administration is at times hostile, and you have administration officials actually spreading misinformation or what they say are Kremlin talking points. And despite all these hints that the Trump administration is cozying up to the Kremlin, Ukrainians just don't want to believe that their most important ally is abandoning them quite yet.
MAYNES: Yeah, you know, Ailsa, to get just a sense of how things have shifted from Moscow's view, I think look no further than that Witkoff interview I mentioned with Tucker Carlson. You know, Witkoff said Putin had commissioned and even gifted a painting of Trump and revealed he'd even prayed for the president after that assassination attempt in Pennsylvania last summer. So this is bigger than just Ukraine. This is about a full reset in U.S.-Russian relations.
CHANG: Absolutely. That is NPR's Charles Maynes in Moscow and Eleanor Beardsley in Kyiv. Thank you to both of you.
BEARDSLEY: Thank you.
MAYNES: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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