Dr. Ben Jones:
Welcome to History 605. Today we have with us Sandy Barnard as an author whose special focus his whole life has been on George Custer, the Plains Indian wars, and the Frontier Army. He has done several projects for the National Park Service, and edited the newsletter "The Greasy Grass", or the annual magazine, "The Greasy Grass" so the Custer Battlefield Historical Museum Association. Certainly, George Armstrong Custer's most famous for his dramatic death in a ferocious battle in June 1876 against the Lakota and Cheyenne. The man's life was larger than that fateful day. Today, Sandy Barnard is on the show with us to discuss his new book, "George Armstrong Custer: A Military Life" published recently by South Dakota Historical Society Press.
Thanks for joining us on History 605 today. I'm wondering if you could begin by asking what are the myths that you've had to contend with about Custer the man, not the battles necessarily, but as this is a biography, what are the common notions about him that are just plain mistaken?
Sandy Barnard:
As with most human beings, George Custer was both a positive individual and a negative individual. He had his flaws, of course. Somehow by being defeated in his last battle, losing a good part of his command and all, and in fact losing that battle against Native Americans, that battle has tended to dominate his historical record and his career as if he were some kind of a fool. That's really not the case, especially when you look at the man for his entire career. He was one of the best generals actually as a Calvary Officer during the Civil War. Even though he graduated the last in his class, that didn't really matter once the man is on the battlefield. I was thinking of this just the other day when the Major Leagues teams drafted all those players and some went very high in the draft.
I noticed that the Boston Red Sox the other day signed two kids who weren't even drafted. They had just as much of a chance of making the Major Leagues as the kids who were drafted in the top 10. The same thing was basically true with the officers who came out of West Point in that era. Custer may have finished last, but he was among the best of the officers who graduated from West Point in 1861.
Dr. Ben Jones:
His class graduates just as the war as beginning, or actually his class was kind of truncated in timeline, or if they graduated early?
Sandy Barnard:
It was supposed to be a five year class, but with the war breaking out, the Military Academy sped things up. There were actually two classes that graduated in 1861, and his was the second.
The expanding Union Army needed Second Lieutenants.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Yes, so he goes into the Union Army serving alongside and opposite many former classmates. What's his first few jobs and how does he arrive so quickly?
Sandy Barnard:
He was one of those people who, in some respects, never served as a company grade officer that is leading a platoon or leading a company. He ended up working for a series of very prominent generals: Philip Kearny first and then George McClellan of course was the Commander of the Army of the Potomac. He went on and served with General Alfred Pleasonton, and it was Pleasonton in 1863 just before Gettysburg who would elevate Custer to Brigadier General primarily because Custer had proved himself as a Staff Officer.
In fact, he often on the battlefield, even though he was a Staff Officer, would lead troops in the charge. He impressed every one of his senior officers that he had worked with. It really isn't surprising that when Pleasonton took over the Calvary force for the Army of the Potomac in June 1863, that he chose Custer among several officers for the rank of Brigadier General to lead brigades.
Dr. Ben Jones:
How old is he then when he becomes a Brigadier General?
Sandy Barnard:
He's among the youngest in the Army at that point. He's only about 23 years old. In my own life, I like to note that at age 23 I too was an Army Captain, but I didn't rise to Brigadier General.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Right. So, a Calvary Brigade, how many troops is that that this 23 year old is in charge of?
Sandy Barnard:
At Gettysburg, he had about 2,200-2,500 men under him. That was an imposing force, the Mission Calvary Brigade that he was now commanding in fact would become one of the most elite units of the Army of Potomac. Then he would go on to lead as the Major General about a year and a half later. He would lead the Third Calvary Division, which also prospered under his command.
Dr. Ben Jones:
During his Civil War service you think about the turnover and union leadership. It's a constant. As he gets this job just before Gettysburg is about to happen, the Commander of the Union, the entirety of the Union force is brand new into his job just as Gettysburg is about to happen.
Of course, General Lee on the other side is very comfortable in his position, and has been doing that job more or less since the outset of the war. Kind of set the scene for what Gettysburg, how it occurs briefly and then what it means to us today that the Union won that battle.
Sandy Barnard:
In many respects, the fact that the battle occurred at Gettysburg is simply just a happenstance. They just happened to meet there. They perhaps could have met any place in terms of where they were maneuvering. Lee had decided that he would take the war into the north, so he had moved his troops out of Virginia and across the Potomac into Maryland, and then had gone into Pennsylvania. In fact, he was missing his Calvary force under General Jeb Stuart at that point, so he was kind of going forward blinded. In the meantime, General Meade had just been named as the Commander of the Army of the Potomac, and so he hustled to gather his horses. They too moved toward where they thought that the Confederates would be, and that was going to be by more coincidence than planning at the small town of Gettysburg.
Custer, in the meantime had just taken over as Commander of the Michigan Calvary Brigade, and he had been ordered by his general to do several different things going in Huntersville, wanted Hanover. At Huntersville, he almost found himself killed. He had led an attack and then was unhorsed, and Lifted Man saved him from being killed. Therefore, he will go on to develop the legend. At Hanover, he had fought well against the troops of Jeb Stuart. They too were maneuvering trying to find [inaudible 00:08:44]. The real impressive battle that Custer will engage in has become known as East Calvary Field. It happens on the third day, July 3rd of the Battle of Gettysburg. Confederate forces amass to charge across from Seminary Ridge to Cemetery Ridge in the so-called Pickett's Charge.
In the meantime, the Calvary force under Stuart is going to try to come around from the rear and disrupt the Union force. General John Gregg has his troops, and Custer has been attached to Gregg's force for the time being, actually Custer was recalled to go rejoin his General Kirkpatrick. But because of the pending attack by the Confederates, at each Calvary field Custer stays put and there's a large back and forth battle, several different charges by both sides. At least twice, Custer grabs the command of a Civic Unit and gives the utter "Come on, you Wolverines," and he leads the attack against Confederate force. Eventually, the Confederates will melt away. It's basically a draw, but in the sense that it's a victory for the Union because Stuart was not able to disrupt the activities on the battlefield elsewhere as the entry forces were providing.
Custer is not the only one who deserves praise for East Calvary Field, but given that he's rather flamboyant, people certainly focused on him because of that. It was a dynamic day for him.
Dr. Ben Jones:
They didn't know it at the time, but Gettysburg proves to be a turning point in the war, kind of the phrase "The high water mark of the Confederacy". After the battle, what does Custer go on and do?
Sandy Barnard:
There's a long, slow campaign as the Confederates retreat into Virginia, and Custer is heavily involved in that particular effort. There's no one final battle there, but they eventually make their way across the Potomac back into Virginia. During the fall, Custer will be involved in several different campaigns. In September, he will actually be wounded at the Battle of Culpeper, and will take some leave. It would be really in 1864 that he had his next two opportunities to gather battle scars and battle victories. There's a long campaign beginning in May where the two forces are colliding in a series of engagements. In the meantime, General Sheridan has replaced General Pleasonton, and that will begin a relationship between Sheridan and Custer that will last until Custer's death.
Any number of battles across the spring and summer of 1864 where the Mission Calvary Brigade fights [RockingWell 00:12:21] time after time. One battle, Trevilian Station on June 11, 1864. It's oftentimes referred to as Custer's First Last Stand. He saw a Confederate wagon train, he sought to seize it. In the meantime, the Confederates surrounded him. In another book that I did about Lieutenant Edward Granger, an aide to Custer, Granger describes in great detail how Custer was responsible for the Mission Calvary Brigade holding its own until they were rescued.
As I said, the battle is oftentimes referred to as Custer's First Last Stand. Throughout May, June, July and August into September, the Mission Calvary Brigade is a force.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Yes. Well, and his rise culminates actually in his... Isn't he present at Appomattox when Lee surrenders his army?
Sandy Barnard:
He's not in the room.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Oh, he's not in the room.
Sandy Barnard:
There are paintings that show him in the room. He actually did receive one of the surrender flags, but he was not part of the group that met to discuss the terms of surrender. He was nearby. At that point, he was Divisional Commander. So, he was nearby with his division standing ready to fight if that proved necessary, which it did not of course.
Dr. Ben Jones:
With a person's rise so quickly, and at such a young age, it doesn't happen without its controversy. I imagine he made some enemies within the army. What did Grant think of him?
Sandy Barnard:
At the time, Grant thought well of him. There was no reason for him not to. Custer was a General who delivered victory after victory. At one point in a letter to his sister, Lieutenant Granger refers to Custer as one of the "Fighting Generals". We read too much and see too little. Grant had no reason to frown on Custer during the Civil War. It's later that Custer begins to take some steps that will lead to problems ultimately with the president.
Sandy Barnard:
Very early, for example, after the war has actually ended, but there were Confederate forces still at large in Texas, he is dispatched to Texas with a makeshift division, and takes some action against some of the volunteer troops who wanted to go home. Those actions are frowned upon by the army command, including Grant. That probably didn't endear him to Grant at that point. Whether that was a fact of later, it is speculative here. It was really in the mid-1870s when Grant as president is maneuvering to open up or seize the Black Hills. Custer gives some testimony that implicates the president's brother about some post-trading ship scandals on the Frontier post.
So, Grant retaliates by removing him from command of what is called the Dakota Column that was going to go into action in May 1876. He also removes his command of his then Regiment, the 7th US Calvary. General Terry as well as Sherman and Sheridan intervened and Custer is restored to command of the Regiment, but not to the column. Part of the reason they were successful in having Custer restored is that Grant was being pummeled by the democratic press, which is not too different from what happens today, of course.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Sure. You mentioned the Black Hills. Let's backtrack a little bit. He has this expedition in 1874 in the Black Hills. I wonder if you can share what that was about and kind of the impact of that... What were the results of that expedition for South Dakotans today?
Sandy Barnard:
Really, you asked me about myths, and one of the myths that involves Custer is focused on the Black Hills. It's not as if Custer opened the Black Hills. The whites were going into the Black Hills and had been doing so for decades. The treaty of 1868, the Fort Laramie treaty, had guaranteed the Black Hills to the Native Americans, but there were rumors of gold there. The army end of the treaty was authorized to have posts. It could actually patrol through the Black Hills. That's where part of the myth comes, it's as if Custer suddenly decided one day to go look for gold in the Black Hills.
He was given the command. He was ordered to go into the Black Hills. He was there legally. Actually, in that particular case, he did not engage anyone, but he did explore it. His stories that came back, as well as stories from others about the Black Hills suggested that there was gold there. That did set off the Black Hills Gold Rush. That really opened the door to 1876, because the Indians went out insulted that the whites were trying to take the Black Hills from them.
There were actually negotiations between the two sides that failed, but that didn't stop the Grant Administration from deciding that action should be taken. In late 1875, they would order the Indians to return to the reservations, but the Indians themselves had the rights to be there. It was also wintertime, so of course they could not and did not return to several reservations that had been established. In early February, the orders went forth to direct the army to go force the Indians to leave the Black Hills and leave the extended reservation out west.
Again, Custer himself was following orders.
Dr. Ben Jones:
It's difficult for us today to understand the meaning of gold in the economy. When the dollar is based on gold, it's essentially the source of all currency. When more gold is found, or in some way added to the economy, in 1873 a severe recession hits the United States.
I think from Grant's point of view, he's trying to solve a recession and there's a place that's gold in it, and there's this pesky treaty standing in the way. So, he's trying to maneuver a different deal, it seems to me. Ultimately then of course, the Lakota, the Cheyenne, they don't want to negotiate a new treaty. They like the one they had. So, that begins the campaign for what becomes of which the Battle of Little Big Horn is apart. I'm wondering if you could kind of paint a verbal picture for the listeners on the three prongs of the campaign, and what was the point of the Battle of Little Big Horn.
Sandy Barnard:
As I had said earlier, the order to forth to the army to force the Indians to return the reservations, whether that was a lawful order and all we can debate that today, and it's still debated today of course. To the officers of that period, it was a lawful order. So, there were several men involved in carrying that out, all of whom were Civil War veterans. Colonel John Gibbon is going to come from Fort Ellis from the west in Montana, Montana territory, and will force. General George Cork, who acknowledges one of the better Indian fighters, is at Fort Fetterman in Wyoming territory, and he's going to move north.
Then originally Custer was going to lead what is called the Dakota Column from Fort Lincoln across the Missouri River at Bismark. Because of the political fighting, the impeachment of Secretary of War and all, Belknap, Custer will get in trouble with the president as we talked earlier, and fortunately will be reinstated to command his Regiment, General Alfred Terry, another Civil War veteran and hero, will lead the Dakota Column.
The plans are rather speculative. There is no one solid plan for them to meet at a particular point and a particular time. They're all kind of on their own. If they happened to run into one another, more power to them, but that's not part of the plan. So, Cork moves first, and in March 1876, some of his troops under Colonel Joseph Reynolds will attack the combined village at the Powder River. It will be a victory for the army initially, and then the warriors will retake the village, Reynolds will suffer the loss of his career later by virtue of a court marshal. But because of his failure to retain the village, Cork will then go back and resupply for the first time in the campaign.
John Gibbon will come forth and will actually maneuver throughout Montana territory, and will actually run into the Indians now and again, but he can't seem to force them to battle. He doesn't really keep the rest of the army informed as to what he is seeing, that is they are growing numbers of Indians. Finally, in May the Dakota Column under Terry will set forth from Fort Lincoln. It was delayed by winter storms. Of course, Custer is leading his 7th Calvary. In June, they will actually run into Gibbon and they will begin to formulate some plans.
There is a scout admission under Major Marcus Reno who is sent out to try to find the Indian trail and see which direction they were going, and the rest of the troops including Custer kind of sit tight while that's going on. Unknown to the army, to Terry, and to Custer and to Gibbon, is that Crook has now come back into the field. He has about 1,500 soldiers and civilians as well as Indian scouts. He's making his way north. He takes stops on June 17th at the Rosebud for copy, and in the meantime here comes Crazy Horse with about 1,000 warriors.
This was kind of unheard of on the Plains, that the Indians would attack that large of force. There's an all day battle, the Battle of the Rosebud. There's a very good book on that battle written by Paul Hedren. The fight goes on all day. It is basically a draw. Crook still retains the field because the Indians withdraw, so he claims the victory, but it was basically a draw. To the Indians' credit, Crook decides he shot off too much of his ammunition, so he's headed back to modern day Sheridan to resupply. He doesn't tell anyone about what has befallen him, that the warriors are much more aggressive, much more numerous, and that he himself has now taken himself off the trail.
Custer doesn't know that. This is eight days before Custer himself will run into the Indians at Little Big Horn.
Dr. Ben Jones:
It's quite a campaign filled with complexity and so forth, and of course the enemy gets a vote and here it's folks like Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull, very effective and practiced warriors. What can you tell us about their motivations at that time, that Custer assumed away, if you can understand where I'm going with that question. You've mentioned it a little bit about how Crook might have been surprised that there was such a large force that was so willing to fight, in fact, attack him.
What is the going assumption that Custer has as he's proceeding through with his column about the nature of what the Indians were thinking?
Sandy Barnard:
All the leaders have expected that the Indians will follow their normal path, that is in the face of large numbers of soldiers they will not stand and fight. That's why Crook was surprised when here came some 1,000 warriors attacking him. That should never happen. That's not in the book. But he doesn't communicate that information, as I said, to the other officers.
They expect maybe 500, maybe 1,000 warriors would be what they would face. Instead, there has been a steady outward flow of warriors and families away from the reservations and into the wilderness to join up with the Indians who were under Sitting Bull and other tribal leaders. The village that will eventually gather under Little Big Horn by June 25th, a very large one. It could have had as many as 1,500-2,500 warriors and as many as perhaps 7,500-10,000 people. It would be one of the largest towns in Montana if it existed today.
The soldiers do not know this. When Reno makes a scout, he does discover signs that there are a lot more tent poles and the like headed west. He does report that information, but again it doesn't really worry Terry and the others because they do not expect the Indians to stand and fight. Custer is then sent forth to go up to Rosebud looking for the Indians with the idea that they could all meet on June 26th.
That's not really a firm plan. Another's myth of Little Big Horn, is that Custer was definitely going to be in place at a certain time, and Terry was coming at a certain time, and they would catch the village. Yet, there would be a battle at a time and place that had now been designated. That wasn't quite what the plan said. Terry himself with the given force moves west along the Yellowstone and will eventually come up to Big Horn. Custer is now moving up to Rosebud. There are signs that there are a lot of Indians ahead.
He has the word from his scouts that he will face more than he might have anticipated. He's still not worried. The army is used to fighting Indians somewhat by this time. A large force doesn't necessarily mean trouble. Custer needs to know where they are, so he's planning on June 25th to sit tight and locate them, but other signs indicate that maybe his force has been discovered. He decides that he has to move forward because one of the things the commanders all fear is that the Indian villagers themselves will disperse, they'll scatter and not be able to be relocated.
So, he doesn't want that to happen. He then divides his force. That's not unusual. There's another myth there that Custer should have kept his force together. He had learned his lesson at the Battle of the Washita eight years before, which was a victory for him. He had divided his force into four different units and it worked for the most part, except that a couple of the subunits didn't get into place quickly enough. Other commanders, notably Ranald Mackenzie at the Palo Duro Canyon, had attacked Indian forces with just several hundred troops, while the warriors may have numbers of 1,500. And he too won.
It's not something that is unusual in terms of the way the army fought at the time. It's not unusual for them to be un-phased by the number of warriors they could face. He tells Captain Benteen to go to the southwest just in case there are Indian camps further up the Little Big Horn. That's what happened to Custer at the Washita. There were other villages downstream of the Washita. He keeps Reno and the other troops under Reno with him, and they head forth down to Rosebud. Then at one point, they think the Indians are now breaking.
So he orders Major Reno to attack, and he will be supported. To Custer's discredit, he doesn't tell Reno exactly what that means. Was he going to follow Reno into the village from behind Reno? Or from some other direction? It turns out it must have been from some other direction because he himself goes north along the bluffs, and Reno finds himself alone in the valley and suddenly there are far more than warriors than anybody expected. Those warriors begin to close in along his scrimmage line, force them to scatter into what's called the Timber, and eventually flushed them from the Timber and forced them back to the bluffs across the Little Big Horn where they will set up a defensive perimeter.
Custer himself has gone north. He makes some movement towards the Little Big Horn at Medicine Tail Coulee. That used to be the idea that Custer was trying to attack there, but most historians today think that was more of feint. Custer has probably spotted the women and children going north, and that's how he wanted the Washita. He sees the women and children, so he is going to try to seize the women and children. He continues north and begins to subdivide his command. He has a couple of companies under a couple of Lieutenants at one end of the field, while he takes three more further north.
He keeps two at Last Stand Hill, and some troops go forth trying to get across the river to seize the women and children, but they will be repulsed. That begins to turn the tide at Little Big Horn. He was too scattered and cannot hold against the number of warriors who are now infiltrating around him.
Dr. Ben Jones:
As you drive west on I90, you drive right past that battlefield. It's rather striking to see the hill and the terrain around there. When he comes up over the ridge and sees the numbers that he's really contending with now, is it at that point where he has to drop all his assumptions and realize "Oh, there's more than I thought," and perhaps they will stand and fight? What do you think, having studied this battle and this man for so long, when did he sense that other calamity was about to occur?
Sandy Barnard:
One of the most fun projects I had been involved in with regard to Little Big Horn was in the 90s with two other historians: Jim [Brust 00:35:07] and Brian [Bohanka 00:35:09]. Brian is now deceased, but he had a great mind for not only the Indian wars, but for other military actions. He was of the opinion that Custer himself never was phased by any of this. In my last two books, including the Granger book and the other Custer biography itself, one of the things that I've come away with doing the research and writing is strength.
He did not fear death. Men who are going into combat worry about that for the most part, but Custer himself had no fear. He was not motivated in a negative fashion by the fear that he might lose, that he might die. When he came over the ridge for the first time and observed how large the village actually was, he actually probably thought "Now, I can attack and force them to surrender and go back to the reservation."
He believed that he, even with his small force, could force the action. It's only on Last Stand Hill he begins to probably realize that's not going to happen. The force that he sent to the river is repulsed. The forces under Lieutenant Calhoun back at Calhoun Ridge are now falling. Captain Keogh company was in reserve, and it too was falling. It's at that moment I think Custer realizes that the jig is up.
Prior to that, and this is something Brian Bohanker used to make clear too, that Custer was always on the offense. If you think back to the Granger account of Trevilian Station, what he shows Custer doing at that time is constantly in motion. He was not defeated until he was defeated. He kept fighting and fighting, and fighting. Of course, at the Trevilian Station, relief forces did reach him. At Little Big Horn, they did not.
He had recalled Benteen and Benteen only made it as far as Reno, his position on the [inaudible 00:37:47]. The two men had gone forward, but for whatever reason they didn't go beyond what was called Weir Point. Of course, Terry was too far up the Big Horn. He had to come to his rescue. Custer lost because nobody rescued him. So from his own mistakes, that was bad.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Given that people of the time, a lot of people adored him. A lot of people loved him. He was a national celebrity of the day. A lot of people hated him. A lot of people inside the army hated him. How do you proceed from that as a historian then to kind of sift through the sources of who loves him, who respects him, who hates him, and makes sense of what the truth might be?
Sandy Barnard:
The army of that period had strange rules for promotions, unlike today. Therefore, there was a lot of backbiting at the time. Somebody who was truly successful may have incurred the wrath of his brother officers. Custer wasn't so much hated I think one respect, but people were jealous of his success. Even Custer himself could not advance any faster than anyone else. When the army was expanded in 1866, he was able to go from being a regular army Captain again to a Lieutenant Colonel. That was party based on his war record.
He stayed there. He had to wait. The only way you got promoted in those days was for a man to tie or retire. Custer was still down the list, even at the time of his death. There were a lot of people there who were jealous of him, and I think that at the time that jealousy was rather superficial. I think only across almost 145 years since the battle have people formulated these ideas that he wasn't liked and that people were out to get him and all.
For the most part, that's not true. Custer was simply another officer in the military. The idea that he, for example, woke up one morning on June 25th and decided to go out and shoot some Indians, is what you can hear from people but that's not the case. He was there because the US Army and the Grant Administration put him there.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Right. I think that's one point that comes out in your book, is that he is very much a solider following orders doing his job. He just kind of looks at things in a very utilitarian way.
The discussion of the last several days of about General Milley with regard to Trump and whether Trump might pull a coo, is interesting because he proved himself once again in this case to be, as Millie did, to be a solider, someone who was responsible basically to upholding the Constitution. I don't know why people historically have decided that Custer was more than that. He was no homicidal maniac. Yeah, he had a desire for flamboyancy. He was ambitious. I worked 30 years in the academic world, and there's nothing more ambitious than a college professor.
Sandy Barnard:
Even when I was teaching, I would tell my students "You don't go into an interview and when they ask you where you want to be in 10 years, well you'd like to start at the bottom and go down. The proper answer is you want to be dean or president someday."
Dr. Ben Jones:
Right. I usually like to end these interviews with what's the best question? You animate the book with questions about Custer. What would you, kind of along the lines of what you were just saying, what would you tell readers or students about the best question is useful from learning about Custer's life for applying to our situation today?
Sandy Barnard:
I guess that's a hard question to answer, because what happens with Custer is that he finds himself stuck in our modern era. In fact, I have a line in the book I often wear a ball cap for showing my Vietnam status and people will come up to me and shake my hand and thank me for serving at the time. I've even had a couple of people pick up my checks unbeknownst to me because I was wearing a Vietnam ball cap.
I like to say, and I have a line in the book, that Custer and the 7th Calvary are still wandering on the Plains. They haven't been invited back home yet. That's because of course they fought a minority whose rights had been under much discussion in our society today as with most minorities. Custer gets dismissed basically as an arrogant militaristic homicidal maniac who wore a military uniform. Custer was not that. He was somebody who aspired to have a career. His parents recognized that he was more than just a farm boy, so they made certain he was well educated for those times.
He went to West Point and became an Army Officer. That's what he was on June 25, 1876. He had sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution like any Army Officer, and he was doing his duty. That duty today is often tied up with the political question as to whether it was fair on the part of the US government to have sent him there. That's a different question from who the man Custer was.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Right. Well Sandy, thank you very much and congratulations on the book.
Sandy Barnard:
Thank you.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Sandy Barnard, author of the recent book, "George Armstrong Custer: A Military Life". We appreciate your time and talking with us today, Sandy. Thanks a lot.
Sandy Barnard:
Thanks. Sure enough. Bye-bye.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Bye.
Dr. Ben Jones:
Well, we'd like to thank our sponsor, the South Dakota Historical Society Foundation, and our partner of the 605 podcast, South Dakota Public Broadcasting, but most importantly we want to thank you, our listener of the show. If you enjoyed it, I hope you'll share on social media and tell all your friends about us. Now, go do some history.
History 605 explores the history of South Dakota, the northern Great Plains, and the Midwest. South Dakota’s State Historian Ben Jones will visit with guests about their books, museum exhibits and artifacts, and historic sites in the state and region. Along the way, you’ll learn how to think, not what to think, about history and the people of the past.
The host is Dr. Ben Jones, State Historian and Director of the South Dakota State Historical Society. Ben grew up in Sioux Falls and De Smet, served in various locations around the world while in the USAF. He returned to South Dakota to become Dean of Arts and Sciences at Dakota State University, then served as South Dakota’s 15th Secretary of Education. Along the way, he earned his PhD in history and enjoys sharing history’s insights with all of you.