South Dakotans Karen Pettigrew and Tiffany Thoelke from 'Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America' join us to talk about how everyday citizens can influence the public conversation about gun safety.
Lori Walsh:
Karen, I want to talk with you and ask you first what brought your involvement into this organization? Was there a moment that you said, "I have to be part of a citizen action group, where I can have these kinds of conversations and maybe make a difference in my community?" Take me back to that thought process.
Karen Pettigrew:
Well, there definitely was. For me, it was when our grandson, who is now seven, started kindergarten in Denver, and within the first couple of weeks, they practiced what to do if there were an active shooter in the school. And that seemed to me to be a place where we have to stop. Like is this what we're doing now is preparing children for the reality that someone may come in their school and want to shoot them and kill them? And I thought I had to do something and I had heard about Moms Demand Action. And I found that there was a fledgling group in South Dakota and I joined them.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. I remember my daughter's first kindergarten intruder drill is what they called it. And they were hiding in their coat cubbies sort of behind their coats. And that was the first time I think I realized that it was the kindergarten teacher who was going to put her body between my daughter and an intruder of any kind and that was an incredibly sobering thought. It really makes a difference to how you drop your kids off at school in the morning for so many parents. And, Tiffany, your involvement. Tell me a little bit about what drew you to the moms groups and what kind of keeps you showing up for the conversation?
Tiffany Thoelke:
Yeah. Well, unfortunately at the tender age of 11, and when I was in fifth grade, I lost my childhood friend and neighbor to gun violence. And while I don't go into the details, it was a pivotal moment for me and really had a profound impact on my life. And so really that moment has led me here to talk to you today about the prevalence of gun violence within our communities and in our lives. And so for a long time, I had been wanting to do something about it. And so then I found Moms Demand Action back in 2019, and I've been working with them ever since, and it's such a great group of men and women and students coming together. And they help me show up every day and want to fight. And our gun suicides, really I'm passionate about that. And so that brings me here.
Lori Walsh:
So let's lay out some facts for people who might not know or visitors who are driving through South Dakota and listening to South Dakota Public Broadcasting on their radio. South Dakota is a permitless carry state. That started in 2019. So if you're 18 and older, you can concealed carry, you can open carry, legally. House Bill 1212, during this legislative session, the 2021 session, was what's commonly referred to as a stand your ground legislation. It was defeated in committee and then smoked out and it passed and landed on the governor's desk, changing the idea of self-defense and deadly force in the state. And in 2019 to Tiffany's point, 113 gun deaths, which 87% of those were suicides. 87% of those 113 gun deaths in South Dakota were suicide by gun. We have the seventh highest firearm suicide rate in the United States.
Karen, when you roll out some of the data on that and some of the policy and legislation and the knowledge about the state that we live in and our hunting culture and our pride in the Second Amendment, generally speaking, how do you approach activism? Where do you begin with something that we all have in common, perhaps?
Karen Pettigrew:
I think we approach it through emphasizing gun safety and the culture of gun safety. Being aware of the incredible responsibility that it is to be a gun owner, and then going from there to the need to protect others from easy access to guns when harm will result. That would be children, children in homes, children who are visiting grandparents, children who have play dates. It involves emphasizing the importance of securing locked and unloaded guns in motor vehicles because theft of guns is a very common occurrence and stolen guns are always used in criminal activity. So I think the emphasis on safety is something that people on the spectrum, from those who choose to own guns to those who collect and own many, many guns, I think we can agree that that this is an awesome responsibility and there are ways to protect and reduce the incidents of gun violence by being a responsible gun owner.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Tiffany, to that point, I've noticed that there was, at least when my daughter was growing up, a stigma about asking about that. And my husband was in law enforcement. We had play dates and would always say, "Well, this is what we have in our house, and this is how we deal with it." And parents would just look at me kind of open mouthed. And I thought, "Well, maybe they're never going to come over now because I talked about it." But of course in South Dakota, we weren't alone in having guns in our house. So is there, Tiffany, do you think, a hesitation among parents, a hesitation among gun owners to talk about mental health issues, for fear that someone will take their guns? What are some of the things that Moms Demand Action For Gun Sense In America is doing to get the conversation out there so people can speak openly about this part of our lives?
Tiffany Thoelke:
I do. I think there's always going to be stigma and it is an awkward conversation, but I think the more we talk about this and we have this platform and these conversations the more people are going to feel comfortable in talking about that. We have the Be Smart program, which is designed to be presented at different, whether it be the police department or at schools, it's designed to teach adults how to safely store their guns, in which we also provide free gum locks. And so I don't think many people realize, and then when they hear that, they think, "Oh, okay." We're really about education. And 90% of all Americans support good gun legislation. They support background checks. And so we have hunters, we have gun owners, we have all different kinds of people within our organization working to end this.
And in terms of the suicide, like you said, 80% of our gun deaths in South Dakota are suicides. And in a moment of crisis, the access to gun can be the difference between life and death. And so gun suicide we know is preventable through secure storage, extreme risk laws, waiting period laws, and many other tools. Thinking about it, nearly two-thirds of gun deaths are suicides. So we can't end gun violence without ending America's gun suicide crisis. And I think it's also important to point out that someone who dies by gun who shot themselves is a victim of gun violence. And I don't think when they think gun suicide, they think gun violence, but it is. And it's just really important to get that education out and to provide these numbers for people. I think people still really start to think about it when they realize the high level of suicides within our state.
And also going to youth. Car accidents used to be the number one leading cause of death, but that's not the case anymore, gun violence is. So it's really important that we're having this conversation. And we're just so honored to be here, Lori.
Lori Walsh:
So Karen, I want to go back to something you said about the locked cars, because every time someone leaves a car unlocked and a gun is stolen in the city where I live, the frustration from law enforcement officers is palpable during the press conference when they say, "Again, lock your cars, remove your firearms from your cars, and please lock them up." I'm looking at statistics from Giffords Law Center talking about trafficking and saying from 2013 to 2017, 897 guns originally purchased in South Dakota were recovered after being used in crime in other states. Karen, what do you think our responsibility is as we maintain and discuss the laws that we have in South Dakota and how people will take advantage of those laws to commit crimes in other states? What can you tell me about that?
Karen Pettigrew:
I think in South Dakota, people are not accustomed to locking their homes, or at least they haven't been, if you're born and raised in South Dakota. I hear all the time about not locking your home, not locking your car. And I think it was either our mayor or police chief at one point said that a motor vehicle is not a gun safe. So, I mean, I think public education is huge. Now, as far as holding a gun owner liable for a stolen weapon, I think that's always a possibility, but that's not something that I'm hearing discussed and it's not something Moms Demand Action is promoting. We pretty much look at the numbers and try to determine how we can save lives through action.
And so we look at things that we know work like background checks on all gun sales and plugging loopholes that would allow someone in an intimate partner relationship to be exempt from having their weapons removed even if they're not actually married or living with a woman. Women are often, they're five times more likely to be killed with a gun if there's a gun involved in a domestic dispute. But I think, again, emphasizing the education and stressing how important it is for people who choose to own guns to be completely responsible because they have an awesome responsibility to the community.
Lori Walsh:
Tiffany, are you noticing from people reaching out, and certainly when there's a mass shooting and there have been many this year that have made national news, no mass shootings that I'm aware of have been reported in South Dakota. But when events like that happen that make people really think twice, do you see the response that comes directly to Moms Demand Action, that more and more people are wanting and feel called to talk about it, especially among younger South Dakotans?
Tiffany Thoelke:
Yeah. And I love the youth. They're so powerful. They don't have much fear. I think people are called to take more action. I think for a while maybe South Dakota didn't seem like it was such an issue, but as the reports go up of gunshots within my own community, I think people are starting to take it seriously and to understand really that we are non-partisan and making sure that people understand that so that they feel comfortable coming forward, and just because they're a hunting family doesn't mean they can't be a part of the conversation. And making sure that people know that and being there and supporting them when they reach out.
With that said, we do have a meeting coming up on May 4th. They can access that information either by going to our Moms Demand Action South Dakota Facebook page, or directly to momsdemandaction.org, where they can find a whole heap of information and calls to action and as well as just simply going to the events page and putting in their zip code will, once they sign up, they'll get the Zoom link. We're all doing it online right now. But that's really how they can get involved and start the conversation. We'd love to see a Students Demand Action grow in South Dakota. And I think it's important too, to realize the laws that you brought up to stand your ground, which is a license to kill, and these things are things that can be overturned. They're not permanent. They're not forever
So they're the hope isn't lost in South Dakota. It can definitely be hard to live here and and Moms Demand Action can oftentimes be misunderstood in the things that we're trying to accomplish. But I think if anybody feels called to act, we're a great group of people. We are passionate. We love what we do. I mean, aside from the organization we're family, and it's a great group of people, statewide and nationwide. So I would just urge people if they feel called to reach out to do that. And we'll guide them on what they can do to get involved.