This interview originally aired on "In the Moment" on SDPB Radio.
South Dakota political leaders played big on the national scene this election cycle.
President-elect Trump has selected Gov. Kristi Noem as the nation's homeland security secretary. Plus, U.S. Senator John Thune has been chosen as majority leader in the U.S. Senate.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen is co-host of the weekly political podcast Dakota Town Hall and our Dakota Political Junkie this week.
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The following transcript was auto-generated and edited for clarity.
Lori Walsh:
All eyes are on the headline notification that pops up and tells you something. And did you see this? Did you see this?
And this is very reminiscent of the first Trump administration where we saw internal leaks. The Supreme Court's Dobbs decision leaked early.
So as we look at some of the election, what happens next? We are already seeing information is really important and everybody's got something to say, but nobody's really talking.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
No one's got anything to say.
Lori Walsh:
What have you noticed about some of the response to who Donald Trump is going to choose? Who the president-elect, I should say, is going to choose to come with him to the White House? Does it feel like deja vu?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Oh, for sure. So much of this feels like deja vu, but "leaks" has also become a hard word to define. It's been weaponized, and saying based on what side you're on is insulting but let's just say what side you're on, right? So there's the press you want and the hacks you don't, and then the editorial that both sides are trying to plant. And then this is fair with every administration when there's a transition, there's jockeying and you need the reporter to leak this or that.
But it certainly got gasoline on it with this new administration coming in, it seems.
Lori Walsh:
All right. Everybody wants to know in South Dakota what happens to Governor Kristi Noem, now that President-elect Trump is set to go back to the White House and we have a little more information, even though it's not confirmed. Department of Homeland Security that surprise you?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Yes, yes. Because The Dakota Scout had come out last week and said she was going to stay here. She had done an interview. I like being governor, which is of course what you say. There was also speculation on interior or agriculture, something maybe a little more experienced in the South Dakota governor's tenure.
But there's also the deportation and the Trump fan base needs some meat to be thrown to them, and I think Governor Noem is going to be good at that rhetoric.
Lori Walsh:
So she built her reputation on loyalty to the president. And even in her most challenging public controversy — which is when her second book came out and the book tour was cut short and people were looking at the story of her shooting her dog — she was positioning it as, "I'm not afraid to do the hard thing."
And so in some ways that does lead to the Department of Homeland Security perhaps in some uncomfortable ways and perhaps in some very predictable ways. What do you think that that selection says about how President-elect Trump sees Kristi Noem and her reputation in the public spotlight?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
I think it fits some of the other picks. I think if you look at the United Nations pick, these border czar picks, it's the more theatrical version of what the campaign was. And then you see Rubio as a Secretary of State pick.
And so, one would assume the Wall Street transition team that's been put in charge of this seems like they're doing, I don't mean to be dismissive to Homeland Security, but some of the more vitriolic end of Trump's campaign goes to picks like that. And then maybe some of the more establishment — establishment is a bad word right now, but establishment — picks go into the Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense.
Lori Walsh:
We're also hearing the New York Times reporting and as of note, we are recording this on Tuesday and we're airing it on Wednesday. So this could change.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Everything could be wrong in 24 hours, you're right.
Lori Walsh:
But we're also hearing reported from the New York Times that people familiar with the inside conversation say some of the future president's advisors do not want him to sit back and let South Dakota Senator John Thune take leadership role in the Senate. And so we also are waiting to hear who will lead the Republican Party in the U.S. Senate and whether or not it will be South Dakota Senator John Thune.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
It seems hard to think it won't be Thune given the amount of money that he put into Republican campaigns and to candidly helping Trump have a very clear victory this campaign season it seems. The more entertaining end of the Trump world could get it done because a lot of it is driven by the internet and social media, but it just seems like this is one of those times where he is got it locked up.
But that could be wishful thinking because we're all from South Dakota.
Lori Walsh:
All right, so let's talk about other things that you noticed now that we've had a few days, a long weekend perhaps, to process some of the wins and losses of the election.
What stands out to you with how South Dakotans voted last election day, a week ago now?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Oh, is it fair to say I am disappointed in our turnout without sounding like sour grapes?
I don't mean that towards one position. And certainly I worked on one of these issues. People voted and they'd certainly made their mind very clear on the positions on this election day.
But overall it was still a lighter turnout than I think we have seen in other areas. That gives me a big red flag, personally.
Lori Walsh:
Wait, we had a low turnout? I thought we had a high turnout.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
God, I think if you compare us to other states, and when I looked at other districts, it was certainly a higher turnout than the June primary of 17%.
But it just seems like that last little bit of engagement we should be getting from our younger South Dakotans in their 30s, it's just not there.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Let's go straight at the issue that you were supporting and just open that door a little bit. You were for recreational marijuana and that failed.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
It sure did. Boy, did it!
Lori Walsh:
So most of this hour is actually spent with people who did not have a super successful election day.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Is it "Loser Wednesday"?
Lori Walsh:
It is not "Loser Wednesday."
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
I'm so happy to be on "Loser Wednesday," Lori.
Lori Walsh:
Let's call it "What's next Wednesday."
However, what happened? What happened that you find relevant? Is this a money issue? Is this a "Hey, South Dakotans just don't want recreational marijuana" issue? Misinformation?
As you are doing your post-mortem, what are you finding?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
It's certainly not one thing. It's a mixture of a lot of things. No, I don't think anybody from our camp has the idea that we thought, boy, that'd have done it. I think the general consensus, and this again, all of it sounds like finger-pointing, none of it is, there wasn't much of a "yes on G" campaign.
And if you look at how we fared versus how they fared, if there would've been a more like how Kansas had theirs. Also, it seems like when you stack up a few of these issues against some conservatives, if abortion and recreational cannabis and a few other things are on the same ballot initiative, conservatives tend to go generally "no, thank you" to at all.
So I certainly don't think it is the full measure of South Dakota's opinion on recreational cannabis, but I'd certainly think it is an indication of how conservative our voting base would like to stay.
Lori Walsh:
All right, so let's talk a little bit about what happens next in the medical cannabis industry without recreational. Because many people who were trying to hold some space until recreational passed are now saying this isn't worth it.
What happens next for medical marijuana?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
You'll see the industry shrink, certainly. The state needs to remember in these instances that there's only 13,000 medical cards.
This is not a business necessarily, contrary to popular belief of the campaign. This is not a multi-billion dollar year industry for these people that are in it right now. So there'll certainly be consolidation.
I think there will be a huge increase in the appetite for medical cards at the same time where this legislature has some appetite for repealing medical.
Lori Walsh:
All right, what's next for you and people who want to continue to protect that or even expand it into the recreational space?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Ask a boxer how he feels after the fight. I don't think it's the right time to talk about the next fight.
I think it's too soon to tell. I don't think there's any appetite for it in 2026. I think certainly more of the industry's appetite is focused on securing medical.
Lori Walsh:
Meanwhile, we are seeing in other states challenges with competing against essentially the black market of marijuana. Even in states where it's legal, the regulations, the taxes, the benefits that the things that people said, "Okay, we want to bring this in to make it a responsible business infrastructure" are losing to the nimbleness and the longevity of the underground marijuana market.
How does that play out in South Dakota?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
In the state of South Dakota, it's interesting. The black market plays out more in vapes. They're a legal business, but the Delta vape industry is far more influenceable into the marijuana space than the black market is here. The black market is more just in the general pipe of cannabis users. That's a much bigger end of the space.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. I want to unspool this a little bit because what I'm hearing again and again is people shrugging their shoulders and going, "It's really easy to get anyway." So the people who want to get it already have their resources, illegal resources, but they're a little bit less upset about the loss because they're not really sure it's going to impact them.
So that's why I'm asking the questions like, well, if people are getting it illegally who want it, they weren't necessarily motivated or disappointed by the loss. And now you're talking about the vaping industry. So help me understand how to think about this from a bigger picture.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
So let's back up and look at South Dakota. Just all of the places you can get cannabis or cannabis-adjacent products legally. By the way, you can walk into any liquor store right now if they sell THC seltzers and a lot of them do, and that is technically not cannabis. It is derivative of hemp. And under the U.S. Farm Bill, it is legal. You just have to be 21.
You don't need a medical card and you can walk into a liquor store and buy it today. In some gas stations and some smoke shops and the ones that aren't dispensaries who put all the cartoony dispensary signs on their businesses, you can get some sort of Delta this or THC that and none of that is tested. None of that is regulated.
A lot of those have the candy kid packaging, like the sour patchy type stuff as well. And the only place that you can get, now I do sound like sour grapes, like absolutely 100% safe and tested cannabis is — now it's sour grapes; it's too late — is a medical marijuana card and a medical marijuana dispensary.
I have no idea what the black market's doing, to be honest with you, because I'm so deep into the legal end of this. I don't think the black market cares what I think.
Lori Walsh:
And I don't know either. I just know people are saying that to me.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
People are saying.
Lori Walsh:
"You can get it anywhere." I'm like, I don't know what that means.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Yeah, people are saying a lot of things right now on a lot of topics.
Lori Walsh:
All right, what else comes to mind from this election that you think we will see heading into the next legislative session?
Because there's some interesting leadership decisions and it's a little hard to predict. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's easy to predict. What's next for 2025 legislative session?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
I thought your interview with Tony Venhuizen was spot on. I thought he had a lot of insight on it.
I think this new leadership, which also has a lot of freshmen incoming and, candidly, they've got a little bit to prove. They want to show everybody that they're in charge. They're going to influence who's going to be lieutenant governor. They certainly voted for their people in who's going to run the Senate and the House. They're going to put their slate of bills up and give it a push.
Lori Walsh:
Anything that you see, so far themes that are coming out as I talk to people are education.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Education and school vouchers.
Lori Walsh:
School vouchers. Yeah, school choice.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
School vouchers, school choice, property tax discussions, caps and limits. I don't know. I think they're all kind of related because everybody's going to have a bond vote coming up. I think you're going to also see some more theatrical, less maybe constitutional style legislation that are going to keep the Facebook groups happy.
Lori Walsh:
What do they do with so-called landowner rights, Referred Law 21? Now they come back, they get another crack at having that conversation.
Do they have it at all? Or does that just go away?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Goes away for a while.
Lori Walsh:
Goes away for a while.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Yeah. Who's going to talk about that? We're going to talk about it. That's it.
Lori Walsh:
How about abortion? Do you see lawmakers discussing anything or other social issues that they feel need to be strengthened from their perspective?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
That seems logical.
Lori Walsh:
I am nothing if not logical, Murdoc.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
They soundly won. You know what I mean? It might not be my end of the Republican Party. I'm, I guess at this point, the most moderate member of the Republicans at this point. But they certainly have a majority, and I think they intend to use it.
Lori Walsh:
All right, so I ask the Democrats, what's next for your party, and I'll ask you, what's next for moderate Republicans?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
There are a lot of people that I think are into this that are a little newer. They tend to think an election is over after the election.
Again, I thought Tony had a really good point. There's no end of these topics. Abortion is not going anywhere. It will certainly be a matter of conversation in this session. I also think that the conversation of how ballots get on the block of voting is going to be a big topic for everybody.
Lori Walsh:
And Rick Weiland said that is definitely where his organization is going to focus next from my interview with him this hour.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
It is "What's next Wednesday"!
Lori Walsh:
It is. All right, anything else that's next for you? What's next?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
You're either just so depressed right now or you're so happy because you won the power ball, the political power ball.
Isn't it the time to remind everybody to get involved in your community and quit trying to be right one way or the other and isn't that the path? That's the path, right?
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Let's leave it there. That's the path. Get involved. Listen to one another. We live in a democracy where we make policy with people we don't agree with all the time.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
At least for a little while longer, Lori.
