This interview originally aired on "In the Moment" on SDPB Radio.
The Dakota Scout says that former Gov. Kristi Noem's state credit card records should be available to taxpayers. Now released, getting the records has been an uphill battle.
The co-founder of the Scout, Jonathan Ellis, shares recent developments in this story, as well as other political issues he has his eye on as the session comes to an end.
Find The Dakota Scout's full coverage.
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The following transcript was auto-generated and edited for clarity.
Lori Walsh:
It's a pretty exciting time. Things are kind of winding down, but yet there's a lot of work left to be done here in Pierre.
What's the tone right now, would you say?
Jonathan Ellis:
That there are some longer meetings going on. And sometimes, you're having afternoon meetings when, typically, after four sessions, especially the State Affairs Committee is having to meet, the appropriators are meeting, they're trying to put the final pieces on the budget, things of that nature.
So yeah, this is pretty typical, but there are still some big issues out there that are going to be resolved near the end.
Lori Walsh:
What are they waiting for?
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, there are some restrictions on voting in some senses, and when I say restrictions, like residency rules, there's been concern about out-of-state residents perhaps affecting balloting here in the state. So there's some talk about that.
There's also going to be a push to more ballot issues that the Legislature is going to put on the ballot for 2026. So there'll be a lot to talk about in the next week and a half.
Lori Walsh:
More ballot issues to come?
Jonathan Ellis:
Oh yeah.
Lori Walsh:
Okay.
Jonathan Ellis:
And I mean, not only from the Legislature, but from activists who are going to be collecting signatures.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah.
Jonathan Ellis:
Hey, we're a direct democracy state in some sense.
Lori Walsh:
We are. Looking at the budget, tough budget year as well too. How's that sorting itself out?
And the reset on the prison conversation with the summer study, does that change the state budget process measurably?
Jonathan Ellis:
I don't think it does. No. I mean, that money is going to be held in abeyance anyway, it's not like it can be used now in the regular budget. So I don't think that changes the picture. I mean, that doesn't change the picture of ongoing revenues and things of that nature.
But yeah, it is going to be a leaner budget year for sure, and I think they're preparing for that. And you always kind of want to wait to get the fullest picture you can before you create the budget. And sometimes, there've been instances where they haven't actually passed the budget until they come back on veto day to do it. That's pretty rare.
But they typically wait till the end so they can get the biggest, the most current forecast they can get for how it's going to look in the future.
Lori Walsh:
And they're required to balance the budget?
Jonathan Ellis:
They are. So every time they go, "I balance the budget," well, thanks for following the constitution. You're required to do that.
Lori Walsh:
Any thoughts on Governor Rhoden and how his leadership has changed or not changed this session? Because we did have a change during this session, which is, again, incredibly rare.
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, he's more present, has been more present. And maybe that's because he hasn't had to go anywhere, really. I think he did go to the National Governors Association or something. He did one. But he's been more present, I think just more of a presence in the Capitol in my opinion. I'm speaking a little bit from the gut here, but yeah, it seems like he's more of a persona here. He's wielding some influence, I think.
Lori Walsh:
So of course, we're comparing him to our most recent governor, Kristi Noem. And you, at The Dakota Scout, have had quite a story these past few weeks about her credit card and the expenses on her state credit card.
Tell us a little bit of that story, because it's been going on for how long for you where you were trying to get access to those charges to look at them?
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah. So our reporter, Austin Goss, originally put in an open records request with the State Auditor's office back in May last year. And there was some back and forth on that. We kind of upgraded that in June. And then they ended up releasing what were monthly totals at the time through April of 2024. But we weren't satisfied with that, we thought the actual records themselves, their public records, that they should be made public.
And so, we filed a lawsuit against the Auditor's Office, the state, back in September, seeking to get those records. And we litigated that.
When Governor Noem left office, the state decided to settle that lawsuit with our lawyer, Jon Arneson, who deserves the credit on this, a long-time First Amendment lawyer for the media in this state. He has won many victories for the First Amendment. And we settled that.
We got the records, and there are a lot of them. And we've partnered with Sioux Falls Live, Patrick Lalley there, to help get them into a searchable format. And it was a huge lift. We've been working on that for a couple of weeks now.
Lori Walsh:
What were some of the reasons that, originally, you were given to not release those records?
Jonathan Ellis:
They said, originally, that it would be a security threat. So for example, you would see maybe patterns of her travel, which it was ludicrous.
I mean, okay, so I will say, teaser alert, she did like to go to The Venetian in Las Vegas, but you don't know when she's going to be there, those kinds of things. So that was their rationale, but that was just a cover just to hide the documents, let's be honest. Financial documents are explicitly public records in South Dakota's, what I would say, very weak open records law.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah, all right. So let's talk about some of the things that you found. What are some of your first impressions about Governor Kristi Noem's spending over the past five years?
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, and I want to compare this to Governor Daugaard because his were part of the request as well. And they only had one year left of his, the retention schedule. And they're very different. They're very different.
There's an anecdote about Governor Daugaard who he went out to lunch with one of his young staffers, I think maybe even an intern here, maybe in town at Dairy Queen or something like that. They ordered, and he said kind of bashfully, "Oh, all I've got some is the state credit card, can you pay?" And so, he used it very sparingly. I mean, don't get me wrong, he used it, but he was pretty selective in when he used it.
Governor Noem? Not so much. Now, granted, a lot of these expenses are that she liked to go to Starbucks, she liked to go to Culver's. Now, these were when she was traveling and state employees are legitimately entitled to per diems, and so, nothing against that. She was entitled to that as a state employee. But she did travel quite a bit out of state, and that really kind of intensified, I would say, after the summer of 2020.
Obviously, putting that timeline together, that's when she really kind of had some national acclaim for her handling of how she handled the COVID crisis. And she really came, I think as we would call much more on the speaking circuit for conservative organizations, much more sought-after person, kind of was rising to stardom.
So, we paid in some sense as taxpayers. And a lot of the totals out of this were not necessarily even her, but for security.
Lori Walsh:
For security?
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
What did we learn about the security that she had to take? So that's her security detail?
Jonathan Ellis:
Her security detail that the state would support, apply to her trips and things like that. Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. And what are you finding patterns in there? What are your intentions next?
You've got a searchable database for subscribers on Sioux Falls Live and The Dakota Scout.
What are you doing as reporters? What are you interested in? When you look at all the information, what are the places that you want to dig in and say, "What does this mean? What's the relevance of this?"
Jonathan Ellis:
I think that it would be nice to be able to go back and say, okay, this hotel visit in Florida was related what trip? Was it to meet with Donald Trump? Was it because of CPAC or something?
So if you could go back, and it's a very painstaking process to go back, what group was she speaking to?
And I want to be very clear, there were also very legitimate trips. She went to the National Governors Association, Department of Education meeting in Phoenix. She was doing rating agencies meetings in New York, which Governor Daugaard did as well.
And I would say you could argue, maybe all of it's legitimate, but certainly in her role as governor for the state of South Dakota, she was doing those trips, she was also doing trips related to the fact that she was kind of a superstar in the conservative movement.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. So who is supposed to pay for those things? When does it have to come out of her campaign budget if she's campaigning and when does it come out of the governor has been called to CPAC to speak and then we pay for that?
What do we know the ground rules are here? Are we rethinking what the ground rules are?
Jonathan Ellis:
I don't know that there's a bright line there. I think that those are judgment calls in some sense.
I mean, even if it is CPAC or some organization like that, she is, in a sense, representing the state.
Lori Walsh:
So then is it no big deal? Why have them out there?
Jonathan Ellis:
I think, well, transparency is important. I think that taxpayers always need to be aware of how their money's being spent and have those questions.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Netflix charges, why is that?
Jonathan Ellis:
She had a Netflix account, again, you can argue that there's probably maybe some legitimacy on that. She had a SiriusXM account, and she rationalized that as needing to stay up on current events, which, okay.
Governor Daugaard's office had a subscription to The Argus Leader, for example, which was even more expensive, I'm sad to say about my former employer, than the SiriusXM account.
So there are those kinds of areas. I was interested that Governor Daugaard had a $15 a month charge on his card for an at-home security system for his place in Garretson, which again, I think that's a legitimate expense. I think the taxpayers probably should pay for the governor's security system.
So those are just kind of judgment calls. But at the end of the day, those records should just be out in the public and then we get to make those decisions. We get to question that.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Attorney General Marty Jackley has released his expense vouchers, clearly, a much smaller expense account.
Should this be something that everyone does going forward?
Jonathan Ellis:
I think they should be public record, period, for any employee, any government official. I mean, their credit card spending should be public record. Those should be routine public records, in my opinion. They should always be available.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. All right. What are the big wins of this legislative session? Do you think there's been anything that you look back and you say, I remember last year at this time, we were talking about the efficiency of focus for lawmakers as they handled some issues. This year, when we look back so far on this session, are there things that stand out to you like this is what's going to define the work that lawmakers did this year?
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, you saw this session so far, but you've seen a lot of, what I would say, are conservative reforms in terms of, again, talking about voting registration, voting residency stuff.
I think the anti-pipeline people would say it was a victory for property rights, the ethanol people might not say that. So I mean, it depends on what camp you land in terms of what were the big victories.
Lori Walsh:
Right.
Jonathan Ellis:
I mean, the people in Lincoln County would say we got a victory, at least, for temporarily halting this prison project.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Things you're waiting for next. What are you following?
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, certainly the budget is going to be, that's always at the end of the day. I'm going to be interested to see what, ultimately, the Legislature decides to put on the ballot, because that will define it going into that 2026 election.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. What do we know so far? I don't know that I'm up-to-date on that.
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, I mean, there are going to be some that have to do with the petitioning themselves. We have that 60%, so there are going to be some, again, asking voters to go back and maybe even restrain themselves a little bit at the ballot, which has not been successful in the past.
Lori Walsh:
No, that has not worked in the past.
Medicaid, is that going forward? Voters will be asked one more time to discuss Medicaid?
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah. And that's all related to the federal funding. So if the federal funding ever dips below what they'd promised when they expanded Medicaid back in—is it 2010, 2013? There was a promise to states that you expand to this population, we will always meet this minimum threshold, which I think was 90%. And so, lawmakers say, "Hey, if you don't meet that, we want to be able to revoke that eligibility for that population."
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Anything from the federal side that we're seeing impact on the budget yet? Federal employees, obviously, but are we seeing anything in the Statehouse that's being impacted by the change in politics in Washington?
Jonathan Ellis:
I have not, but it is a matter of time before that comes, especially if there are some trade policies that affect our agriculture markets, especially with regard to Canada and Mexico. Those are our two biggest trading partners with regard to agriculture. And so, if there's a big hit because of tariffs on agriculture, well, you'll see that'll have a lot of downstream effect on the state government.
Lori Walsh:
All right. Dakotascout.com is where you can find your work. Thanks so much for stopping by.
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah. Thank you.
