This interview originally aired on "In the Moment" on SDPB Radio.
Former Governor Kristi Noem's tenure as US Secretary of Homeland Security is well underway, and that means the nation is getting a taste of her leadership style.
Seth Tupper joins "In the Moment" as our Dakota Political Junkie. He dives into the headlines for a look at South Dakota's most talked about governor.
Plus, he takes an early look at the state's next gubernatorial election.
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The following transcript was auto-generated and edited for clarity.
Lori Walsh:
There was a security breach for Governor Kristi Noem as her credentials and her passport, her keys, and some cash were stolen from a DC restaurant where she was eating with her family.
People are kind of focusing on the $3,000 in cash that she had in the purse, but also the security credentials seem to be a pretty serious breach of security as well.
What are you making of this news as it unfolds?
Seth Tupper:
Well, somebody sent me this story in our Slack messaging app the other day within our organization. I had already seen it, but my response was, "There can't be a day without some kind of Noem drama."
I'm not trying to blame her for her purse getting stolen, because nobody wants that. You wouldn't wish it on anybody. But it's just like, every day there's got to be something. Just a few days before that, The Wall Street Journal did a big story about Corey Lewandowski running her office basically, and some people referring to him as the shadow secretary that ruffling feathers and stuff.
She just seems to be that type of person that conflict and drama seem to follow her wherever she goes. But she also seems to be the type of person who thrives on that, and you wonder how much of it is accidental and how much of it is manufactured. And no matter either which way, she seems to always parlay it to her benefit somehow.
Lori Walsh:
So how does she, obviously she's not — well, I shouldn't say obviously. It is highly unlikely she is manufacturing the loss of a purse, because that's a pretty devastating thing to have happen.
However, the scrutiny that is on her for leaving those things unsecured in her role and in her position is not for nothing. The Lewandowski scrutiny has followed her for a long period of time. These are some of the things that you've been reporting on on Governor Noem when she was governor for ages.
The cost of traveling with her. What happens when she travels? What is her relationship with Lewandowski as an advisor when she was governor of the state? How does she spend money? How much money does she spend? These are things that South Dakota media outlets have been covering for quite some time, and now the national media is like, "Well, we're not going to take a day off either."
Seth Tupper:
Yeah. And with the cash, maybe she learned her lesson using credit cards. I don't know. Maybe that's why she was carrying so much cash. But some of it is unfair. You do see a lot, especially since Noem has gone more national, some of the headlines you see, I mean, people just absolutely picking apart her appearance.
And this thing about, "Why does she have $3,000 cash?" There is a tendency with her to pick apart the smallest thing and some unfair things, and that's unfortunate. But then on the other hand, she seems to be the type of person who realizes or ascribes to the theory that no publicity is bad.
Lori Walsh:
Sure. I see what you're saying.
Seth Tupper:
And so she takes that criticism and answers it and is pugilistic about it and tries to turn everything into just more awareness of her name and who she is and her image and everything. It's hard to say the criticism is fair or unfair sometimes, because she just seems to sort of be able to use all of it strategically.
Lori Walsh:
A court case in federal court there in Rapid City with Judge Karen Schreier and a South Dakota Mines student that is suing Kristi Noem and the Department of Homeland Security for revoking her student visa. That happened over the weekend as well. Can you give us an update on that at all?
Seth Tupper:
And here we go, kind of talking about Noem again, right?
Lori Walsh:
We're not done, yeah.
Seth Tupper:
It's just more of how she dominates the news cycle. But yeah, we're looking a little further into this and hopefully I'll have a story soon on more of a system-wide look at what's happening with international students in South Dakota at public universities.
But yeah, there was a graduate student at South Dakota Mines here in Rapid City that is from India and was here on a visa, is here legally to get a graduate degree. And apparently, as far as we know from the lawsuit, had a traffic citation, I guess if you want to call it that. Not pulling over, I think, for an emergency vehicle. And based on that, the Department of Homeland Security under Kristi Noem moved to remove this person from the country, which again, stokes all kinds of headlines and questions.
My reaction to it, I think a lot of people's was, before President Trump came into office the second time, a lot of what he said and a lot of the people around him said was, "Well, we're going to focus on the worst of the worst, the people who are here illegally, people who have committed serious crimes."
It certainly raises a lot of questions about somebody who is convicted of a traffic citation and is here legally getting their graduate degree. Is this the type of person that we want to be going after in mass raids of getting people out of the country who are here illegally? Because this is a person who is here legally.
Lori Walsh:
Right. And part of the challenge here is who has the authority to make the decision? And then the other question is, do the American people think that this is the right decision? There's a lot to unpack there as well, I think.
Seth Tupper:
Yeah, and how's it going to affect South Dakota? I mean, this is obviously an issue for this person and her life. But I was looking at the numbers this morning; about a third of the graduate students at South Dakota Mines are international students, are people who are not American citizens who are here on a visa and are here legally. These kinds of things do stoke a culture of fear. I think in Rapid City traditionally, and I know a lot of universities are probably the same, these international students have been welcomed as people who are doing research, a high level of research that contributes to the economy and is a positive thing.
The judge so far has temporarily ordered the government to not remove this person from the country as the case proceeds, but there have been further filings that looks like the government is going to pursue this and try to keep up with it. Meanwhile, graduation is May 10th.
So maybe they're able to run out the clock and this person is able to just graduate and move on with their lives. But it does look like the government is going to pursue this.
Lori Walsh:
But that relationship, to your point, at Mines, the number of researchers on the faculty and the student body and PhD programs and postdocs that come through Mines and other universities throughout the state doing that research, if those are shut down because of a traffic ticket and people cannot come back or communicate, that really impacts the future of an institution.
Seth Tupper:
Absolutely, and the state. It's a personal tragedy obviously for that person if they're not able to complete the degree. But when you think about a third of the graduate students at Mines being these kinds of students, I mean, that's a lot of research that doesn't get done. That's a lot of businesses and products and patents and things that don't come out of the research that doesn't get done. And that has an effect on the state as a whole.
It's an important case for one person, but it's also important, I think, culturally and economically for the state.
Lori Walsh:
I suspect there will be more cases in the future, more South Dakotans. What are you hearing from people just about their anxieties or their concerns about things? Because a lot of the conversations are not happening like you and I are having, a public conversation now that people will listen to. A lot of these conversations are happening behind closed doors as people figure out how to navigate what's ahead. I know I have tons of people contacting me, but they're not willing to go on the radio yet and some things are not reportable yet.
Are you having the same situation where there's just a ton of people reaching out, but there's just a lot of question marks about what actually is going to happen?
Seth Tupper:
Exactly, yeah. We do have a reporter working on, as I said, a broader story right now. And there's a lot of fear. I mean, obviously, I think everybody else in a similar situation looks at this woman who is the subject of this case and says that, "Well, if a traffic citation is the thing on her record that they're using to try to deport her, well, yeah," then that kind of opens up everybody to think, 'Well, then, I don't want to do anything. I don't want to say anything. I don't want anybody to notice me.'"
So getting people to speak out is pretty hard, and even getting information from the universities, sadly, has been hard. In some other states I've seen coverage where the university system will come right out and say, "Yeah, we confirm that we've had 43 students have been affected by this," or whatever. We're not getting that kind of ready information from our university system in South Dakota, unfortunately.
Lori Walsh:
Well, let me ask you this, too. And again, we're still talking about Kristi Noem, Governor and Secretary. We had some questions that we reached out to different congressional offices and were directed to Department of Homeland Security saying, "Hey, we don't have clarity on this. We think you should talk to DHS."
Of course, we reach out to DHS and we get no response. Now, we know when Governor Noem was governor, she wasn't always in front of the press in a way that the press enjoyed. She would disagree with that assessment. However, just being able to come to the media and explain what's happening would solve some of the problems, would provide some clarity.
Seth Tupper:
Well, it'd be nice. And yeah, we hit the same wall with the Department of Homeland Security saying they don't comment on individual cases and what we're trying to do.
Lori Walsh:
I can't get them to comment on anything.
Seth Tupper:
Yeah, yeah. We just recently asked for this particular one, but we would like somebody from the administration to answer that question I raised earlier, which is if really what the administration is doing here is going after what Trump has said in the past is the worst criminals et cetera that are here illegally that shouldn't be in the country, et cetera, then why are they going after a graduate student who's pursuing a graduate degree? And again, I've talked about this being a traffic citation. That's all part of the courts and there's more details there.
But I would love to get an answer to that question is, what is the strategy here? Why are they going after these types of people, I guess, rather than what we heard as a theme earlier, which was more of, "We're going to go after more of the hardcore criminals, the worst of the worst," et cetera.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. All right, so Senator John Thune, Senator Mike Rounds, Congressman or Representative Dusty Johnson all come home to South Dakota during the Congressional recess and they are met with protests in some cases. What sort of responses are people seeing in the streets when our elected leaders come to town now?
Seth Tupper:
We had a reporter, Makenzie Huber, who went to Senator Thune's appearance in Watertown, and there were some protesters there as she reported. It was interesting. Senator Thune had, I thought, a really sort of mature, thoughtful response to it and just said that these folks have every right to speak out. He said he understands that they're upset with some of the Trump administration's policies and they have every right to say that, et cetera. There's kind of this game going on, obviously, on both sides where a lot of people who are angry and upset about what's happening with the country or have latched on this idea that the members of Congress should be doing town halls. And of course, I mean, part of that is we all know that they would get berated at the town halls, and so of course they don't want to do it right. And they're saying, "Well, here I am. I'm accessible. I'm accessible in other ways." They don't have to do a town halls.
So there's this back and forth that I don't think is terribly productive because one side in some ways wants the Congressional delegation to be mercilessly berated in public. And of course they do have an obligation to put themselves up for the public and maybe should be willing to do that, but you can see why they don't want to. So there's a tension there now, and where it's heading, I guess, is anybody's guess. But of course we do have some elections coming up next year, and that may be where we get our answer finally as you've seen, we've seen when a lot of these protests have happened throughout South Dakota. We had a great commentary from Mary Garrigan recently how the anger is not only directed at Trump and the Trump administration, but a lot of these protesters are also directing their anger at the Congressional delegation. There seems to be a rising tide of sort of anger against them among some people.
Lori Walsh:
Which gets the idea of what is the role of Congress and providing some of these cuts have come where the money was already appropriated by Congress, and then the executive branch decides that it is not going where it's supposed to go. Some people are just frustrated at that process, of someone not saying, "Now, wait, we appropriated that. Now we might cut it next time."
But it should go through this different process of just executive order after executive order because of the precedent that it sets. Even if you think those funds should be cut, whoever's next after President Trump will have a precedent of behavior.
Seth Tupper
Yeah, and I think what we've seen and heard from people at these protests is they're angry at the response or lack thereof from the Congressional delegation, which a lot of what we've seen and heard from them has been sort of a shoulder shrug saying they recognize that the problems and some of the process of the Department of Government Efficiency and different cuts and things that have happened, and with Senator Rounds and the others saying, "Okay, we recognize there's been some problems here and there and we're working to solve the problems that have been caused by some cuts that maybe weren't thought out."
But beyond that, there hasn't been any sort of stiff resistance to what's happening and maybe the way that President Trump is sort of, as some people would say, usurping the power of Congress. Among the protesters, there seems to be a lot of desire for the Congressional delegation to do more to protect the power of Congress and stop Congress from being run over by President Trump.
Lori Walsh:
Are you seeing a lot of counter protesters or people who are very enthusiastic about the current administration's agenda and how quickly things are moving? Are they feeling really good about the direction of the country? Are they showing up in any measurable way that you've seen publicly?
Seth Tupper:
No, I think here and there a few instances of that, but not on any large scale. No, that doesn't seem to be. And maybe that's a function of just this being an off year really. If we're in an election year, maybe we'd be seeing a lot more of that, obviously.
Lori Walsh:
Meanwhile, speaking of elections, we should talk about the race for South Dakota governor shaping up. We do have Governor Larry Rhoden and then some potential challengers to him in the future. What are some of the things that you're seeing for next year's election that are already taking some shape?
Seth Tupper:
Well, here we go. Why are we talking about this? Because of Kristi Noem, because she decided to leave the governor's office, so everything goes back to her.
But it is shaping up to be one of the more interesting governor's races we've had, really, I think, since the Billie Sutton, Kristi Noem race.
Lori Walsh:
We'd be talking about it anyway because she'd be done.
Seth Tupper:
Right, right.
Lori Walsh:
Right. She would be vacating one way or the other.
Seth Tupper:
By leaving, she certainly put Larry Rhoden in a much, much improved position with him being able to capitalize on getting some things done in the legislature and all of that. Governor Rhoden, I don't think, has said that he's running, but if you look at his actions since day one, it has seemed like he's going to be running, so I fully expect him to run. Dusty Johnson, Congressman Johnson, is widely rumored to be considering. Well, he's acknowledged that he's thinking about it, I guess, so could be running for governor.
And then we have the Speaker of the State House Jon Hansen and the Speaker Pro Tempore Karla Lems making an announcement Thursday that looks like it's going to be them announcing a run for governor. So if you have that, and there could be others in the race, I mean, what an interesting race that is going to be if you have a Rhoden, Johnson, Hansen race and maybe a couple others. I think wildly unpredictable how that would turn out.
Lori Walsh:
Attorney General Jackley?
Seth Tupper:
Another name in the mix, yeah. And Toby Doeden, the Aberdeen businessman who's been making a lot of noise in Republican politics for the last couple of years. I mean, there's five names right there. I mean, yeah, it's kind of wild and a lot of political calculations, I think, have to be made by all those folks, anybody who's thinking about getting in.
What are the benefits and drawbacks of being in a primary like that that's so crowded? And is it the right time to run? A lot of deep thinking going on, I think.
Lori Walsh:
Opportunity for Democrats at all?
Seth Tupper:
Well, it could be. We've done stories and we've asked Democrats and they've said they will have a governor candidate. We don't know who that's going to be. It depends who comes out of the Republican primary. I mean, one of the crazy things about Congressman Johnson has always been that you've had the folks on from SDSU with their polling showing that basically among the general electorate, he's very popular compared to other statewide politicians. But when you just poll Republicans, his popularity falls quite a bit.
So if he comes out of the primary, you got to think that's going to be a tough race for Democrats. If somebody else comes out, maybe there is an opportunity of somebody who's more of a hard-right Republican. Maybe there's an opportunity for a more moderate Democrat all of a sudden to run a competitive race. You never know.
Lori Walsh:
Much has been made about Lieutenant Governor Venhuizen relationship with Representative Dusty Johnson. There was a lot of rumors that they would be together on a ticket. Well, now he's in the office with Governor Rhoden now. That would be a difficult jump for him to make.
He would probably want to stay put. That's a total speculation. Maybe he does not want to stay put. I have no idea. We'll ask him.
Seth Tupper:
Another thing that makes this so interesting, just the inner Republican sort of drama and turmoil. These kind of primaries, they pit old friends against each other and they fray relationships and people have to pick sides. And so that's what I think is going to make it just so utterly interesting if it shapes up like it looks like it could. And so unpredictable, because you don't know who's going to endorse who, who's going to work for who, who's going to raise money for this candidate or that candidate. All of that's on the table in kind of a scramble in these primaries. We don't get these primaries with Republicans very often in South Dakota, obviously, because a lot of times it's Republican incumbents who are running and there's usually not an open seat.
Lori Walsh:
It's a done deal often.
Seth Tupper:
We have seen that in the past.
Lori Walsh:
You hate to say that. You hate to say it's a done deal because obviously it doesn't have to be, but often there are pretty steep odds for challengers.
Seth Tupper:
Right. Right. And of course the Republicans know that if you get through the primary, you have a great chance of winning the general. So when there is an open seat, those kind of opportunities don't come around very often, so that's where you see the sort of wild and crazy primaries where everybody jumps in because it might be the best chance they're going to get for many years.
Lori Walsh:
All right, so is that good for the state? Now we have this, I think about the number of times that Governor Rhoden has used the word "reset" from the Noem administration. It's also kind of a reset from the pandemic because she did serve during that really complicated time. And with all these different voices, is it an opportunity for Republicans in a primary across the state to start defining who they are? Or is it just a battle of who's the most popular kid in class right now?
Seth Tupper:
I think it depends on how they run the race. I think it could be a great opportunity for South Dakota if they run a race that is about issues and that is civil.
We've seen races before in South Dakota politics, of course the race when the Senator Rounds ran the first time for governor and it was a three-way race with him and Steve Kirby and Mark Barnett, and of course the other two candidates really just savaged each other in the primary.
And then Rounds ended up being a guy who walked in as sort of the other guy that voters weren't sick of. In a primary where you really are in a dogfight, you can really be led down a pretty bad path pretty easily by the competitiveness of it. So I think they have to be careful about that, not to get so bitter and get so competitive with each other that they forget how it looks to voters. So there's always that danger.
Lori Walsh:
I'm trying to imagine a cage fight between Dusty Johnson and Larry Rhoden.
Seth Tupper:
I don't think this is headed that way.
Lori Walsh:
I'm not sure there's going to be a lot of snark between those two.
Seth Tupper:
It seems like three pretty fairly civil people.
Lori Walsh:
This will be a gentleman's battle.
Seth Tupper:
But then you get somebody like a Toby Doeden in there if he decides to run or if he decides to throw money around in the race in any way. I mean, that's a guy, I don't know how much your listeners know about him, but is sort of becoming legendary for his verbal bomb throwing. He gets involved, who knows where things can go in the race?
But anytime you have people running, I think it's generally a good thing rather than to just have a coronation.
Lori Walsh:
Right. We have a lot to talk about in the state, especially regarding economic growth and what that looks like and what does South Dakotans want it to look like. So lots to talk about in the future.
Seth Tupper, thank you so much for this. We really appreciate your time.
Seth Tupper:
Yeah, thanks for having me.
