This interview originally aired on In the Moment on SDPB Radio.
David Wiltse, Ph.D., and Lisa Hager, Ph.D., are associate professors of political science at South Dakota State University and our Dakota Political Junkies this week.
Their conversation with Lori Walsh analyzes Gov. Kristi Noem's remarks at the NRA convention. They explore what her executive order means for South Dakota banks and what her speech signals about her political future.
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Lori Walsh:
You're listening to In the Moment on South Dakota Public Broadcasting. I'm Lori Walsh. Well, our Dakota Political Junkies conversation today will explore the actions and motivations of our lawmakers, trying to look into what they're saying and what their ambitions might be for tomorrow. Dave Wiltse and Lisa Hager are both Associate Professors of Political Science at South Dakota State University, and they are joining me from SDPB's Jeanine Basinger studio at SDSU.
Lisa Hager, welcome. Thanks for being here.
Lisa Hager:
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Lori Walsh:
Dave Wiltse, welcome.
David Wiltse:
Good to be here.
Lori Walsh:
All right. Let's start with the big news on the comedy talk shows and on the regular news, which is the NRA convention and Governor Kristi Noem's speech. One of the things that has been pulled from, I don't know how long the remarks actually are, but there's a lot in there. People really pulled the comment about her granddaughter being two and having a rifle, a shotgun, and a pony, and use that to great impact and humor, but there's more to the speech than that.
So David Wiltse, let's start with you and tell me a little bit about what it means when the Governor of South Dakota takes the stage like this, and her comments in their totality, not just the ones that were pulled out for scrutiny.
David Wiltse:
Yeah, I think it's really important to recognize that it's not so much what she said there. It's just the very act of going to a convention like the NRA and what that means a year out from the primary contest. Anyone who is even considering a run for office at this point, and this has been going on now for at least two years, they're going to make these kinds of appearances in what we call the invisible primary, where they're working the party network, they're working all the organizations, all the interests, all the people that they got to win over in order to secure that nomination in the election year.
So the very fact that she's there is sending a pretty clear signal that either she has ambition for that particular office or she wants to be a key player in that conversation, and really be able to steer these different groups in this pre-primary process towards an eventual nominee. Because typically, that party network will land on a single candidate. They do have a conversation amongst themselves, a literal conversation, and they make these kinds of endorsements and they make these kinds of commitments to good, reliable candidates that they think will pursue their policies that they want and can play well with all the different factions of the party.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Lisa, one of the things I thought were, a couple of the things I thought stood out was the part where she said, "The media would lead us to believe the NRA is made up of old white guys. Let me tell you something. I am the NRA." So she really stood as a woman, stood as, her grandmother hunted, her granddaughter has rifles. She planted her flags saying, "Look at me. I am you. I am the messenger you want to lead the party."
Have we seen that before from the NRA, that a woman would stand and say, "No, it's time to give this mantle to a female leader." If we're assuming what Dave said, we're expanding on what David said, that this is a broader message for political office.
Lisa Hager:
Right. I would agree with Dave that this is a broader attempt to gain notoriety and get yourself in the conversation for higher political office. What that ends up being in the long run, we have to wait and see, but I definitely think that this is her way of inserting herself into that conversation. And even though there were some remarks that got pulled out and are being kind of giggled about or whatnot, I think it has gotten her in this national conversation and in a very important policy issue that's important to the Republican Party platform, which is gun rights. And so, she's able to show that, "I am somebody who is supportive of Second Amendment rights and am supportive of the National Rifle Association." So I think she's positioning herself well on a party platform issue here.
Lori Walsh:
Right. The context of that, of course, Dr. Wiltse, is that it's in the light of several school shooting, I'm sorry, several mass shootings in America. When she's giving that speech, pushing back against that, if she secures a nomination or even the support of some organization, she still has to face the general electorate. Do these comments ring as distasteful to most Americans or the majority of Americans? In other words, what plays in the room might not play outside the room.
David Wiltse:
Right. I mean, the polling does show that a majority of Americans do favor some kind of gun control more than that we have now. It's not decisive, but I think the most important aspect of this is whether or not that is going to be key, not just for the nomination, but keeping the party coalition together for the general election. It doesn't do her any good, it doesn't do any Republican nominee any good, or any potential nominee to really start out by courting a center position on this, one of accommodation, because you are going to lose that important part of the nomination coalition, and it will make it harder to cobble together that coalition necessary to consolidate your vote on the right and then move into the general election.
Candidates are not fully incented to always go right to the center, always look for that kind of common ground. They really have, they're being tugged in multiple directions here. And most Republicans see it as a detriment, as doing self-harm if they were to compromise on this particular issue, because that is such an important part of that Republican coalition right now.
Lori Walsh:
I want to unpack this origin story as well, because she also tells a story about her father and being hunting with him, and she's 9 or 10 years old. They're in, oh, shoot, I think the Bighorn Mountains? I wrote it down-
David Wiltse:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
... Now I can't find it. Yes, they're in the Bighorn Mountain. She's 9 or 10, and he says, "Hunt your way back to camp." And she has her horse and her instincts to figure it out. And I was reminded, Lisa, maybe Dr. Hager, maybe we'll start with you. With any candidate has this, and Governor Noems, or Kristi Noems, for a long time was the death of her father and the taxes, the sort of, the estate tax, the death tax. That was something she pushed. Now, we have this other story. If you've read her book, there are a lot of people who have read her book and who have mentioned to me her relationship with her father is very complicated, and they're not really sure if she sees some of the ways that that relationship has impacted her.
This is an origin story of a young 10-year-old being, thinking she was abandoned in the mountains and having to fend for herself. She finds out later that her father was watching behind her and scratching trees and making bear noises, trying to scare her. A lot of people don't find that very funny. They find that certainly a dated form of parenting. Talk, Lisa, a little bit about the origin story that she's putting out here, and whether you see this as a solid origin story for a path to power for her, or is it going to cause her problems in the future?
Lisa Hager:
I mean, yeah, I definitely can understand why some people find that to be alarming. That was definitely my first reaction of being a woman myself. What I would've done at 9 or 10 years old had my dad done that to me, and maybe the tongue lashing he would've got from my mom. But that's kind of irrelevant here and whatnot. I mean, I think what Governor Noem is consistently trying to do in all of her origin stories is try to show that she is an average South Dakotan. She is just like all of us. So she has the story about having her gun and her horse and having to hunt her way back to camp, so kind of this outdoorsy, but also obviously, gun rights kind of story. Having the story about how her father passed away and there were all these issues with the taxes and the farm.
So obviously, South Dakota is a very agricultural state, so again, kind of showing like, "I've experienced or encountered many of the things that many of you are facing." Or, "I have similar interests and whatnot." So, I think, obviously trying to show that you are one of the people that you are wanting to represent, or you're one of the people that is common in the political party that you are a member of as you're trying to pursue higher office is never a bad thing. Obviously, there's going to be various reactions from the public at large on those kinds of things, but I think it can be useful for you in trying to show that you haven't gotten caught up in this so-called Washington political elite, and you're out of touch with people.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. I've been doing this since I was 10. I've been figuring this out since, I'm not new to this game of resilience and instinct and hunting. Dave Wiltse, what would you add to what Lisa Hager just said? Anything?
David Wiltse:
Yeah, a couple things. First, when I would go to elk hunting with my father in the Bighorns, he never tried that maneuver with me. But, I get it. I understand why that kind of a story has appeal. So much of her career has been based on some kind of origin story, building up this image, this brand of someone who displays this kind of rugged individualism, whether that be with the death of her father, taking over the operations of her ranch and farm, how that kind of connects to the pioneer spirit, and there's historical allegory all over this. I mean, she really is trying to tie herself into this tradition that we have in this country that's really admired on the right. A connection to that pioneering spirit, to that rugged individualism that we like to think makes America rather unique in the world.
So I get where this is coming from, and it plays well here. It plays well with her constituents for the most part. Will it give red meat to some of these folks on the right? Absolutely. I mean, this stuff is rather alien to them, and in many respects, rather distasteful, especially when you talk about arming a two-year-old child. And we all know that she's not just giving the kid a rifle or a shotgun and saying, "Have at it."
Lori Walsh:
Right.
David Wiltse:
But to outside ears, that sounds very different than to people who grew up in that culture.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. I want to talk about the policy that comes out of the speech, which is an executive order going after banks who, and the word they use is discriminate against the firearms' industry. I think we could talk about this for a long time as far as whether you can discriminate against a corporation, what this executive order would actually do and what it doesn't do. I know in 2018, Citibank after Parkland announced a new US firearm policy that has caused some business trouble for them in Texas, and now it looks like in South Dakota too, as corporations try to be what they're calling socially responsible, and what other people were saying is wokeism. So a million different directions we could go. Lisa Hager, what do you think is the most significant direction to talk about regarding that particular executive order?
Lisa Hager:
My gut reaction as I was reading through her remarks is just the fact that she's trying to deal with something that the legislature frankly couldn't. And so, I think this is another opportunity for her to say, "I may have had some failures, for instance, such as the grocery tax, but I am able to deal with some of these issues that the legislature hasn't been able to." And so again, I think it speaks to one of these Republican Party platform issues that people who are Republicans or people who she's trying to get on her side for a potential presidential run would appreciate that kind of policy.
Lori Walsh:
Interesting. And I was just going to say, "Oh yeah, that's right. She didn't get her grocery tax through." So this is how you quickly turn people's heads to say, "Don't think about that. Think about this." Professor Wiltse?
David Wiltse:
Yeah. In many respects, I think of this as kind of the functional equivalent to Ron DeSantis going after Disney. This hits on two levels with the core Republican nowadays. First is the culture war aspect. DeSantis going after Disney because of their gay rights positioning, and Christina, I'm going after this target, whatever it is. And I don't know how much this really is an issue.
Lori Walsh:
Right.
David Wiltse:
But it's something that plays really well on one of these culture war things. It also, for both of these folks, really represents kind of a turn in Republican politics when it comes to dealing with corporations. I'm old enough to remember when we used to talk about how corporations are people and they have rights just like individuals, and this sort of thing would just be dismissed by most Republicans as well. "All right. They're operating in a marketplace and they can do these sorts of things if they see fit."
But this really ties into some of this more populistic positioning within the Republican Party now that is more hostile to corporate interests. They don't see corporate interests aligned with their own interests the way that Republicans did 30, 40 years ago. So they're really getting a lot of play out of this for two really important reasons, I think.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. I just wonder what Bill Janklow, as Governor, would think of some of these banking statements targeting the banking industry, from during the legislative session and the veto of the bill that the banking industry was against as they sought to redo their standards, and now this.
David Wiltse:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
And coming out and saying right away, "You're discriminating against firearms industries. You can't do it." Any thoughts on that?
David Wiltse:
Right. That long alignment that Republicans have had in this state-
Lori Walsh:
Right.
David Wiltse:
... With banking in particular, credit cards especially.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Final thoughts from anyone here before we wrap it up? I think it's been so fascinating.
David Wiltse:
I don't know.
Lisa Hager:
I don't, yeah. I feel like I got out all the few things-
David Wiltse:
Yeah, yeah.
Lisa Hager:
I thought she could touch on.
Lori Walsh:
I feel like there's just a lot to chew on here right now.
David Wiltse:
Yeah.
Lori Walsh:
Just a lot to really think about, which makes it a really good Dakota Political Junkies conversation. Our political scientists, Dr. Lisa Hager, thank you so much. We appreciate your time.
Lisa Hager:
Yeah, for sure. Thanks.
Lori Walsh:
Dr. David Wiltse, thank you as well.
David Wiltse:
Thanks Lori.
Lori Walsh:
Both Associate Professors of Political Science at South Dakota State University.
