This interview originally aired on In the Moment on SDPB Radio.
We bring you a tale of two events for today's Dakota Political Junkies.
Both had similar décor: Red, white and blue color schemes with an abundance of stars and stripes. Both had South Dakotans proudly announcing which candidate could lay claim to our delegates' votes.
But the overall tone and messages at the events were very different.
David Wiltse, Ph.D., is a professor and Lisa Hager, Ph.D., is an associate professor of political science at South Dakota State University. They share their analyses of the Republican and Democratic National Conventions.
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The following transcript was auto-generated and edited for clarity.
Lori Walsh:
The Republican National Convention was in Milwaukee from July 15 through 18. And the Democratic National Convention was in Chicago from Aug. 19 to 22.
And now, the race to election day.
David Wiltse and Lisa Hager are associate professors of political science at South Dakota State University, and they are seated in SDPB's Jeanine Basinger Studio at SDSU as our Dakota Political Junkies for the day.
Dr. Wiltse, welcome. Thanks for being here.
David Wiltse:
Thanks for having me. And a little correction, I was promoted, so I'm a professor.
Lori Walsh:
Well, congratulations. Let's have a party, Professor Wiltse.
Dr. Hager, welcome back as well.
Lisa Hager:
Great to be here.
Lori Walsh:
All right. The first time that I really understood what a convention was was when I read Hunter S. Thompson's "Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail '72." I did not read this book in 1972 to be clear, but that was the first time that I got an inside look at the insanity that a political convention can be.
Lisa, start us out with what is this? Why do the parties gather together and wear some really outlandish, tacky clothes and start celebrating the future of America?
Lisa Hager:
Well, obviously it's a process that has evolved. But currently, the whole idea is that this is an opportunity for the party to name their presidential candidate. Obviously, going into the conventions we know who is going to be that candidate, so this is an opportunity for a lot of pomp and circumstance and the celebration of the candidate, the party, and really this look toward that election. And then naturally what we end up seeing is a bump for each candidate after their convention.
Lori Walsh:
All right, we're going to listen to a couple clips first so people who didn't watch can hear a little bit of the moment when there is what's called the roll call and each state takes the microphone.
Here is from the Republican National Convention with Lieutenant Governor Larry Rhoden at the mic.
Lt. Governor Larry Rhoden:
Madam Secretary, I'm Larry Rhoden, lieutenant governor of the great state of South Dakota. I'm proud to speak on behalf of myself and Governor Noem and our delegation.
We represent the freest state in a nation built on the principles of freedom.
On behalf of South Dakota, I wanted to say one thing. President Trump helped bring fireworks back to our Mount Rushmore. That monument honors four of our greatest presidents, and I believe there's room for one more. Just saying.
On behalf of South Dakota's 29 delegates, I proudly cast all our votes for President Donald J. Trump.
Lori Walsh:
That was audio from the Republican National Convention, and here is South Dakota's roll call from the Democratic National Convention.
Jason Rae:
South Dakota, how do you cast your vote?
Chante Reddest:
[Lakota language]. In my beautiful Lakota language that means, hello my relatives, I shake your hand with a happy heart.
That is the spirit of my beloved South Dakota. My name is Chante Reddest, and I want to say it that my people the Oceti Sakowin are still here. The Seven Council Fires are still here.
Let me tell you what a Kamala Harris presidency will mean for me, my friends and my community. More importantly more opportunities, more good paying jobs, better access to health care and a quality education. That is the future we deserve, and it is the future we will win on Nov. 5 when we elect Kamala Harris.
Shane Merrill:
Thank you, Mr. Secretary. The state of South Dakota is proud to be part of such a historic moment in our country's history.
We are a land that is proud of our hardworking farmers and ranchers that celebrates nine tribal nations and their incredible cultures; where natural beauty can be seen from the Big Sioux River to Mount Rushmore. South Dakota is honored to cast all 20 of our votes for Vice President Kamala Harris, who will soon be known as Madam President.
Lori Walsh:
You heard there from the Republican National Convention Lieutenant Governor Larry Rhoden, and from the Democratic National Convention, that was Chante Reddest and then Shane Merrill for the South Dakota roll call.
Dave Wiltse, the fun, the excitement, the energy, and the opportunity of a roll call moment. It's obviously not necessarily for all of us, but it's for the room, for the house.
What comes to mind for you there?
David Wiltse:
What they're trying to do, and this has been true of conventions from the very first back in 1832, is package the party going into the general election. Even though the nomination doesn't take place there any longer except on a very formal basis, they're trying to put together a package for the American people, try to reignite people's latent partisanship, get them thinking as Democrats again, get them thinking as Republicans again.
That's what all this pomp and circumstance is, as Lisa noted, all about: Getting people reengaged in the political system and getting them in that frame of mind going into the general election.
Lori Walsh:
What stands out about how these conventions to you now were conducted? It seems almost like ancient history to remember that former President Donald Trump was coming off of surviving an assassination attempt and there was a somber beginning to that convention.
What else stands out to you?
David Wiltse:
Well, the somber tone of his own acceptance speech was pretty remarkable. He wasn't the Donald Trump we're used to.
What really stood out with the Democratic Convention to me was, whereas the Republican Convention was trying to get us back to essentially 2016 repackaged Donald Trump, get him into the general election on a good standing, the Democratic Convention was kind of a change of generations. We're not going to see a huge break and we didn't see a huge break in terms of policies from Joe Biden to Kamala Harris. But it really was a recurring theme of here's the next generation of political leadership. This is something that just folded very neatly into everything that the Democrats are trying to present right now in terms of that switch from Joe Biden stepping aside to Kamala Harris taking this nomination without the primary process or without having gone through the primary process.
Lori Walsh:
Lisa, Kamala Harris does not have much time, but yet that was a huge switch and it gave a bump to the Democrats in general. What are some of the challenges and opportunities of the timing with which she entered the race as a presidential candidate that's laid before her?
Lisa Hager:
I think automatically she got a ton of news coverage because of the fact that she was entering so late, which then she can really use as a springboard through her campaign. And then with the DNC, that also gives her an additional boost, this chance to have more media coverage about her. So I think that helps put her on a more equal footing. The other thing that helps is obviously she's been the vice president, so it's not as if she's been out of the news or people aren't aware of her or anything like that.
I think in terms of there being much of a disadvantage, she's been able to really ensure that there isn't much of one. And the DNC did a good job of really trying to talk about this idea of we're moving forward with a sort of new generation, and then also kind of talk about all of the policies that they are interested in working on if she becomes president. I think that sort of tone really helps set the stage to get people excited.
David Wiltse:
Virtually all the complaints that are being levied against Joe Biden in terms of his age, in terms of this gerontocracy within the Democratic Party, instantly done away with.
Lori Walsh:
Gerontocracy; that's a good word.
David Wiltse:
That's your $5 word of the day.
Lori Walsh:
There's our word of the day. And it seemed like the Republicans, especially the candidate Trump, did not quite know how to pivot quickly to deal with her candidacy.
Now they've had a little bit of time. The shine will wear off on the people who were excited about her at first as they look more closely at her policies and her history.
What do the Republicans need to do next? What do you see them doing that you think might be an effective way to get their message to the people?
David Wiltse:
Well, exactly what they are doing, and that really is speaking to the identities of the modal Republican out there. This is how Donald Trump has won elections in the past. And if he's going to pull this election off, he's really going to have to energize that base of his party with the very essence of his being.
I mean, that's how this guy has done so well. There's just something about him. He is able to speak to a very large portion of the Republican Party, really ignite their base identity in ways that others can't. And people who try just don't seem to do it. I don't know if it's the authenticity with which he speaks or the way he carries himself, but he energizes folks very clearly in an important way.
He is just going to keep on doing what he's always done, and that's probably his best path.
Lori Walsh:
Lisa, what would you add to that?
Lisa Hager:
I think the thing that Trump needs to do is focus on what Harris's record has been as vice president. I think focusing on that will be more beneficial. Using that to juxtapose his own performance in office and try to highlight his strengths versus her weaknesses, I think, will be very helpful going in. I think we'll see a lot of this being displayed when we do get to the debates. Not that those generally tend to really change people's opinions much if we look at the research on it, but I think that's where we'll start to see the strategy come through, and then we'll see an impact occurring when it does come time for some potential polls to come out.
Lori Walsh:
I wanted to talk about that, because who's paying attention right now? Maybe no one yet. But yet absentee voting, I should say, begins on Sept. 20 in South Dakota. So there are people who will go and fill out their ballots as early as that. When do Americans start tuning in to the presidential race in a way that is significant if they're not party faithful, if they're not the base that tuned into their prospective convention every night and got excited?
David Wiltse:
The research on this is pretty clear. It's the conventions. The conventions really do kind of signal a shift in people's attention, and that's when they really begin to fall back on their latent partisanship. Most Americans do have latent partisanship. Even though a lot identify as an Independent, they really do have a deep-seated identity as a Democrat or a Republican. And that's when that latent partisanship is activated. So they know what they're doing here. You look at their messaging, you look at the packaging, it's all about getting people excited again, getting people thinking about politics after a long summer.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah.
Let's talk a little bit about U.S. Senator John Thune, because he was in our offices and of course people are widely talking about — I didn't invent this conversation, but I'm happy to be part of it — the future of his leadership in the U.S. Senate as Mitch McConnell steps away.
I'm going to play a little clip here for you of that conversation when we just asked him, "What is the behind the scenes of that? Do you campaign to become your party leader in the Senate?" Here's what he had to say.
John Thune:
After every November election every two years, the Congress, the House and the Senate hold leadership elections. So Senator McConnell's announced he's not going to run for Republican leader, so that position will be vacant after this election. I've announced that I am seeking that. There are others who are as well.
It's a full-time campaign. You've got to convince, persuade your colleagues that you're the right person for the job.
There are currently 49 Republican senators. We hope after this election there'll be a few more. If we get some new ones, they would be able to vote in that election as well. So it's trying to make a persuasive argument about why you're the right person to lead Republicans in the future. Transitions like this are pivot points. They're an opportunity to usher in that next generation of leadership, and I hope I represent that.
We'll find out come November.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Why are you the right person to lead?
John Thune:
Well, I think that we're going to be facing some really tough issues and challenging times, and I think I have the ability to bring people together.
Stylistically, I've always believed that leadership is about making the people around you better and helping your team succeed. Clearly, no matter who wins, the majority will be a fairly close one as it has been, which requires not only the ability to try and unify your side, but hopefully to reach out and get some Democrats as part of the coalition. To do most things in the Senate takes some level of bipartisanship. And I think the Senate historically has been that check and balance in our democracy because of the supermajority requirement to get things done. It's designed to protect the rights of the minority.
I feel like I've got the hopefully Midwest common sense character qualities that would enable us to govern under what are some arguably difficult circumstances and some hard challenges. We're going to have to do some hard things, and it's going to require an ability to try and pull people together.
Lori Walsh:
A couple themes there. If you're just tuning in, you're listening to In the Moment on SDPB. That was U.S. Senator John Thune, a clip from our interview with him a few days back.
And my guests now, David Wiltse and Lisa Hager, both political scientists from South Dakota State University as we're giving a little analysis about the national picture here and how South Dakota fits into it.
I heard him say, "Next generation of leadership." I just heard Dr. Wiltse say, "The next generation at the DNC." It was a big deal. I also heard him talk about Midwestern common sense, and that reminds me of the vice presidential conversations we've been having with these Midwesterners from Ohio and Minnesota in the vice presidential slots. And then I also heard governing and getting things done and working together and building coalitions, which is very different from some of the divisive speech that we hear again and again.
Lisa Hager, what stood out? In that menu, what would you like to select for us to talk about here?
Lisa Hager:
We could really talk about any of them. I think that the biggest thing that I saw as interesting was Senator Thune's discussion of the need to really bring people together and work on essentially bipartisan solutions to a variety of issues. I found that interesting, just because as we've seen, there's quite a few Republicans who are often unwilling to want to reach across the aisle. And so I think it is an interesting talking point to hear and to basically look at moving forward to really see how that pans out and what ends up happening. Also, just with the election in general, are the Republicans going to eventually be more willing to reach across the aisle? Because right now, there's a chunk of the party that is very unwilling to do that, and criticize members of their own party if they do that.
Lori Walsh:
Dave, what would you add to that?
David Wiltse:
Well, he mentioned a new generation. But in many respects, he represents an older style of politics. Like Lisa said, there's this new generation of politicos, people like J.D. Vance who are completely uninterested in governance and more about just the inflammatory rhetoric. What do we call it on Facebook? Something posting? That's a style now, and that's something that people are very successful at.
And John Thune is not one of those kinds. He's certainly younger than Mitch McConnell, so, generationally, yes, in terms of age, but he does represent a different kind of politics. And I would say, yeah, it is more sensible. I wouldn't ascribe that just to the Midwest, but he really is the caucus leader when it comes to that side of the party. This is a decision that's going to be made amongst the caucus. Like you said, a constituency of a few dozen is a lot different than a constituency of a few million. But yeah, it is a campaign, and we are going to see a tension between that more serious legislative type over the more rhetorical bomb-throwing type. And who knows how that's going to end.
Lori Walsh:
You mentioned Facebook there, and I've been researching abortion and the history of abortion politics in South Dakota for the coverage about Amendment G coming up that we're doing.
It occurred to me that it's too soon to tell what exactly we're going to hear and see in the public space, but some of, when you look back the things people were willing to say about their abortion opinions, I have a hard time imagining people saying them today because of the potential threats or backlash or what they might face on social media.
Democrats come out of the gun, Lisa Hager, talking about reproductive rights. It's all over in Kamala Harris's campaign ads that this is important. The Republicans come out and say, "Hey, they're radical with their abortion opinions." How much do you think the politics of abortion is going to play out in this election, and does it matter? Is it pivotal to this election? Or is it just one of a dozen topics that are going to get people fired up?
Lisa Hager:
I think it's just one of a variety of topics that are going to get people excited about this election. I think the biggest overarching issue at the moment is the economy, and I think there's going to be a lot of people making decisions based on their pocketbooks, but not only what is their general vision for public policy in this country moving forward? Is that something along the lines of what Donald Trump is proposing? Or is that more about what Kamala Harris has on her agenda? And I think those two things together is what's going to be dictating this. Obviously abortion's in there, but I don't necessarily anticipate people going to the polls based on their abortion views.
Lori Walsh:
Do you agree with that, Dave?
David Wiltse:
I'd push back on it a little bit. I think it is more salient now for Democrats than it has been in any previous election cycle. You've also seen a change in the rhetoric and the things that people are saying. We would never have seen the kinds of stories publicly that people are telling now in previous years. In previous election cycles, Democrats didn't even even want to use the term abortion; whereas now, people are more free about it in certain places.
As far as abortion being on the ballot in South Dakota and a few other states, probably won't make a bit of difference in South Dakota in terms of the outcome of elections around us. But I can see if you were to have this simultaneous election with an abortion question on the ballot in a swing state, that could make a difference. It might not be the most salient issue for a plurality of people, but it is important for a lot of Democrats out there. And it could be one of those things that helps push them towards the polls.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Lisa, you mentioned pocketbooks. I'm thinking also of a Kamala Harris ad that came out early, and it said something like one job should pay the bills. The idea that part of the American dream should be you only have to work one job. And I thought, "What's the economic policy to make it so you only have to work one job?" That seems very vague to me, but yet it also seemed bumper sticker worthy in some ways. What did you think of that way she is addressing voters to say, "In my America, you only need to work one job to pay the bills"?
Lisa Hager:
Well, that's the perfect way to get your point across without actually having to show how the rubber is going to meet the road with respect to that. So you can get people to vote for you, and then later on really struggle to actually find a way to write that into policy. And yeah, you might have some of your supporters be disillusioned by you. There's always presidential support decay that takes place as the president gets into office and can't actually meet some of their campaign promises. But that's not really what she's worried about right now. Right now she wants to get into office. So I think that's really what she's focusing on. And for somebody who's just kind of listening and that sounds good, then that persuades them, or could persuade them.
Lori Walsh:
Could persuade, yeah.
In our final minutes, other things to look for as we kick off the campaign in earnest, as we head into the debates, as people start, those flyers start coming to your mailbox? Maybe 30 seconds for each of you.
Dave Wiltse?
David Wiltse:
Well, I really am paying attention to how Donald Trump is going to try to revive that electoral coalition that got him there in the first place. I honestly think he's going to fall back onto old habits, because that is the path to a success. As for Kamala Harris, what I'm really looking at is how she's able to cobble together the resources to get this election going on such a short timetable and how fluidly she'll be able to take some of those party resources and put them behind her.
Lori Walsh:
Lisa Hager, final thoughts?
Lisa Hager:
I think with Trump, we should be looking to see how exactly he navigates the rest of the campaign. Like Dave said, if he falls back on old habits and becomes more inflammatory, I think that would possibly be hurtful to him in his campaign. As far as the Harris campaign, I think there might be some need for more substance and for an ability to defend her record as vice president in some of these areas where she struggled to have an impact like immigration going into debates and more substantive conversations about policy.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Is it just me, or is J.D. Vance having a hard time connecting with people?
David Wiltse:
It is not just you.
Lisa Hager:
Yeah, no.
Lori Walsh:
What is the significance of that? It does seem like the people who've read his book have something to say to me about who he is as a person. But the more I see of him trying to just be a real person in public, it seems like he's stumbling a bit. What's happening there?
David Wiltse:
Well, as I said before on this show, Donald Trump does not pick his vice presidential candidates in the way that previous nominees have, and that is biting him right now.
Lori Walsh:
All right, we're going to leave it there. We're going to have obviously lots more time to talk about this in the future.
David Wiltse, a professor of political science at SDSU, and Lisa Hager, associate professor of political science, also at South Dakota State University.
Dakota Political Junkies, by the way, is also a podcast. So if you just want to binge on our political coverage, you can go to your favorite podcasting platform and listen to these segments. We'll pull them out for you so they're all set up for your ears. Thanks so much. We'll see you next time.
David Wiltse:
Thanks.
Lisa Hager:
Definitely.
