This interview originally aired on "In the Moment" on SDPB Radio.
On Monday, Gov. Kristi Noem announced what she calls "four cornerstones to enhance government accountability" in South Dakota.
This happened in the wake of significant financial scandals over the years. From fraudulent vehicle titles to scholarship money that didn't find its way to students in need, political leaders and policy makers have struggled to maintain the public trust in how taxpayer-funded programs are monitored.
With Noem most likely on her way to Washington as part of President-elect Donald Trump's cabinet, the timing of the announcement is raising questions.
What can the governor do on her way out the door? And how does this impact Lt. Gov. Larry Rhoden as he steps up to lead the state?
Our Dakota Political Junkies today are Seth Tupper with South Dakota Searchlight and Jonathan Ellis with The Dakota Scout.
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The following transcript was auto-generated and edited for clarity.
Jonathan Ellis:
The timing does make sense in that we are going to have this budget address and we are lurching toward a legislative session here soon.
And there has been broad consensus, I think. I mean, the attorney general has already talked about needing reform issues. We've had lawmakers now saying that this is in the shadow of some pretty high-profile fraud schemes committed by state employees.
So I think the timing makes sense to me because if you're going to make legislative changes, you want to try to start building some support for that with lawmakers, with the public, and this timing does make sense.
And this has been an unusual period in terms of politics because we've been so much busier. Typically, after an election, things slow down a little bit, but we've had some other issues going on since then, but I think it does make sense in light of we have a session coming up here.
Lori Walsh:
And Seth, South Dakota has, I think it's inarguable, a problem with government accountability. Taxpayers over the last decade have had some issues with accountability, transparency, and where taxpayer-funded initiatives end up going. Help put it into context for people why this matters.
Seth Tupper:
Yeah, a decade and longer. What was it? Was it the state treasurer? You guys remind me of the story. But in the early days of statehood, he ran off with the entire state treasury.
Lori Walsh:
Founding, yes.
Seth Tupper:
And went to Mexico or whatever. You know? You start with that and you go through the years—
Lori Walsh:
It hasn't always been that bad.
Seth Tupper:
No.
Lori Walsh:
But noted.
Seth Tupper:
But then we come to modern times and the EB-5 scandal with some nefarious activities with a program giving visas to immigrant investors and some investigations there during the administration of Mike Rounds and Governor Daugaard and then come through the so-called GEAR UP scandal, where there was, very sadly, a man who killed his family, his wife and four kids, and committed suicide and set his house on fire while he was under investigation for embezzling money from a government program that was funneling federal funds through the state. And you come up to the most recent examples now of people allegedly making fake vehicle titles while they worked for the State Department of Revenue and a woman allegedly stealing funds from the Department of Social Services while she was working there. So inarguably, we've had our problems, as you say, with some corruption issues.
And so when you talked about the timing earlier, it does make sense going into a legislative session, but I also thought it felt kind of weirdly rushed and thrown together when you really parse out what was in that press release that the governor sent and what she's really done.
She told somebody to make a training course that state government would take and she also said she hired an extra internal control officer. And that's really it.
And then she kind of hinted toward a legislative package that she didn't say what it is really or release any of the bills. And for a situation that's been ongoing now for quite some time, and obviously she was busy, we were all busy with campaign season, but it kind of read a little like somebody just thought of this stuff yesterday. "Let's make them take a class and let's hire an extra person."
Lori Walsh:
Yeah, so what's behind that? It's an interesting time. I mean, it is an interesting timing. And Jonathan, does this read as an announcement that is based on building buy-in?
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah, I agree with Seth in that it's like this 35,000-foot view of what we're going to do and, I mean, what are the exact details and how does all of this work?
I mean, my eyes kind of glazed over a little bit, but yeah.
Lori Walsh:
So do you think there's more coming? Is she getting out ahead of something?
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, let's see what the legislative package is going to say.
Lori Walsh:
No, I mean, do you think there's more scandals coming? Is she getting ahead of the next thing?
Jonathan Ellis:
Ooh. Whoa, Lori!
Lori Walsh:
No, that's not a prediction. That's a question.
Jonathan Ellis:
No. Yeah, I don't know.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah, okay.
Jonathan Ellis:
I mean, look, inevitably, I don't think that government corruption is something unique to South Dakota. I've lived in other states and embezzlement in general is not unique to. I mean, businesses are always dealing with that. So I mean, where there's money and a will, there's always temptation. That's why we have criminal investigators. But where to the extent that you can put in more internal controls or maybe computer code, and maybe AI is going to help with these issues moving forward.
Lori Walsh:
Well, we had, I can't remember if it was just last year or if it was two years ago now because I don't have that right in front of me where she talked about the aging technology systems for the State of South Dakota and was asking for money to upgrade them for cybersecurity, and it says in the press release, "There were safeguards that we can put in now that were just not possible with the state's aging technology systems." So I think we'll see more about what some of that money went to that now you can put new things in, is what I'm reading here.
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah. And my understanding too with regard to the $1.8 million that disappeared in the social services over the course of, well, more than a decade, that that was detected because of some of these new enhanced procedures and computer methods that they started using and they did find some irregularities. And so that is an example of maybe of where some of this might work.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Maybe.
Seth, if someone's doing some work with a ledger book and a pencil — I'm exaggerating — it's time to upgrade some of the systems for a state government that runs pretty lean.
Seth Tupper:
Yeah. In fairness, I think maybe there is more coming during the budget address. I mean, that would not be out of character for Governor Noem or any governor to sort of hint at something and then give further details in the budget address. So I guess we'll see if there's an actual legislative package or more coming out.
Lori Walsh:
It says, "A legislative package for the 2025 legislative session, including clearer and stronger accountability measures."
Seth Tupper:
Right.
Lori Walsh:
What do you want? What do you want? As journalists, what do you want for this?
Seth Tupper:
Well, I'd like to see the bills, you know? That was the thing with their press release. It was like that was kind of a strange little nugget from the release where it was like, "Okay, well, show us the bills," or "tell us what's in them." There wasn't a lot of there there.
Lori Walsh:
Show us the legislative package, yeah.
Seth Tupper:
Right. Yeah, yeah.
Lori Walsh:
Okay. But we could potentially have a new governor.
Jonathan Ellis:
Yes.
Lori Walsh:
President-elect Donald Trump has indicated he wants her to lead the Homeland Security department. So it's very possible by the end of January, just a scant two months away, that we will have Governor Larry Rhoden and all this will be on his desk.
Now, Seth, I have heard nothing but praise about Lieutenant Governor Larry Rhoden. Of people saying, "He's a stable force, he's experienced, we like working with him, we have a good relationship," lots of accolades, roses thrown at his feet.
How long will that last once he becomes governor?
Seth Tupper:
Yeah, I don't know how long it will last. Some of that is because outside of the political circles that people run in in the state, he's not very well-known, I don't think.
He's sort of an unknown commodity. So in that way, I don't think a lot of people have very strong opinions about him one way or the other. He had 16 years in the legislature, he's been lieutenant governor, but he's never been particularly high-profile.
He did run for — people forget, I kind of forgot — he ran for U.S. Senate in a Republican primary in 2014. He got 18% of the vote in that primary that then-Governor Rounds won and went on to get a seat in the Senate.
So I think some of the things that people are saying about him, yeah, they like him, but I think maybe a less-flattering flip side to that is they find him not threatening maybe, and not somebody who will stand in the way of other people's political ambitions.
And sometimes I would say people like him and respect him, I don't dispute that, but I also think he's probably somebody that people look at as not really a threat — rightly or wrongly, I don't know — but is not really a threat to stand in the way of maybe some of the other folks who think they have the inside shot on the governor's race coming up in a couple of years.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Also, Jonathan, we need to know who his lieutenant governor's going to be.
So maybe everybody likes him a whole lot because of that?
Jonathan Ellis:
Yeah, and I think you mean, and I think Seth alludes to this, is he going to be a caretaker governor for a couple years and then stand aside? But I think we'll know a lot by who he does pick for his lieutenant governor.
Yeah, I will say in talking to Joel Rosenthal, we kind of went over some of this for a piece I did. He's a former GOP chairman, and we kind of went down memory lane a little bit.
With one notable exception and we'll get to that, history has not been kind to lieutenant governors in this state. Multiple times when they've either tried to get the nomination or become, at least in, what, two instances, become governor and then were unable to secure their nomination being governor. That would be Harvey Wollman and Walter Dale Miller.
So the one notable exception is Dennis Daugaard. He was lieutenant governor and was able then to win the nomination.
Lori Walsh:
Who are we looking for as lieutenant governor pick? Any buzz on the street that we can say?
Jonathan Ellis:
We have a story coming.
Lori Walsh:
I mean, certainly there's buzz, but you have a story coming.
Jonathan Ellis:
We have story coming on that, yeah. Seth mentioned that 2014 Senate run and I covered his announcement here when he was in, I think it was Falls Park, and made that announcement.
And I'll be honest, I like Larry a lot, but he seemed kind of awkward about being in sort of the big city. I mean, he's a ranch guy. He's comfortable in that world, maybe less so in Sioux Falls.
And so I think that again, probably if he is thinking about running for this office, I mean, I think that his lieutenant governor pick will signal that that's what he's doing. I mean, if he was just going to hang out for a couple of years, he'd probably have one of his ranching buddies do it. Right?
But if you're trying to build a broader constituency or appeal, I think it's somebody who's probably going to be an East River person, maybe from a bigger city.
Lori Walsh:
Seth, I'm guessing you have a story coming and I'm guessing SDPB has a story coming, but what do you want to add to our radio conversation right now about what you're looking for for a lieutenant governor pick?
Seth Tupper:
You know, what I think about with what must be going through Lieutenant Governor Rhoden's head, and he hasn't really said much of anything publicly, which is probably smart because I don't think you want a lot of speculation out there, political speculation because I mean, Governor Noem still has to get officially nominated and confirmed. And if something goes wrong, then all of a sudden, you have to reel back in all the public talk you did about what you want to accomplish as governor and who you want to be your lieutenant governor and all that kind of stuff.
So he's in a little bit of a politically precarious spot there. I mean, presumably everything will go according to plan and she will get confirmed, but there's no guarantees. And so it's probably a smart move for him right now to keep all of that pretty close to the vest until it's a sure thing.
Lori Walsh:
What else is up in the air then as we look at the next governor, Senate, House? I mean, there's all kinds of positions that could switch and new people who could come on the scene. It's an interesting time ahead in South Dakota politics.
Seth?
Seth Tupper:
Yeah, and it is one of those times that I think we'll look back on this years from now as sort of a transformative period because obviously as you said, Governor Noem's departure from the state — or it looks like she'll depart from the state — really sets a lot of things in motion.
Suddenly we have a scramble for who wants to be the next governor, and if somebody like a Dusty Johnson decides not to run for reelection to U.S. House and to run instead for governor, then we have a scramble for who's going to be our next member of Congress in that position.
And so yeah, it could be a big period of realignment, which we've had before. And then does she come back? I mean, that's one of the things I'm really fascinated about is is this the last we'll see of Governor Kristi Noem as far as political office in South Dakota? Is she basically gone for good or could she be back in a couple of years running for U.S. Senate or something?
Lori Walsh:
Sure, sure. Or vice president.
Seth Tupper:
Right, yeah. Or president.
Lori Walsh:
Or president, yeah.
Seth Tupper:
Her decision to leave for greener pastures, so to speak, really, really puts a lot of things in motion and puts a lot of political minds spinning, obviously.
Lori Walsh:
What do you want to add to that, Jonathan, as we wrap up here? Anything?
Jonathan Ellis:
Well, just that, I mean, we just got done with a very busy, busier-than-usual election for us, and now we do have an interesting 2026 one coming up and things will start to fall into place here probably sooner than normal with regard to this nomination.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah, and we take it one day at a time and one gubernatorial press release at a time.
Jonathan Ellis:
At a time.
Lori Walsh:
Gentlemen, have a wonderful Thanksgiving break, although most of you are probably working a little bit over that break, but please take some time for yourselves and your families. Thank you.
Jonathan Ellis:
Thank you. You too.
Seth Tupper:
Thanks, Lori.
