This interview originally aired on "In the Moment" on SDPB Radio.
Kristi Noem has moved on to Washington and given now-Gov. Larry Rhoden her letter of resignation.
We turn to our Dakota Political Junkies to learn more about the new leader of South Dakota. Plus, an exploration into the child care "crisis" no one seems to be able to solve.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen is co-host of the Dakota Town Hall podcast. Patrick Lalley is editor of Sioux Falls Live and writer of the child care piece.
Read Lalley's full reporting.
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The following transcript was auto-generated and edited for clarity.
Lori Walsh:
We are going to start out with the big news of the week, which is Governor Larry Rhoden. We sort of knew it was coming, now it's here. And we're seeing a new kind of leadership in Pierre.
Patrick Lalley, kick us off with some of the things that we knew were happening, and how you've seen things unfold in the last few days.
Patrick Lalley:
Well, we knew there was going to be a transition, right? As soon as the confirmation was official, that Governor Noem would be leaving office and Lieutenant Governor Rhoden would be rising to the office.
And it's all gone as planned and smoothly. And the new governor is speaking to the Legislature. And we're waiting for all the process to come through, but it's the middle of a session.
So as he said yesterday, "I've got to get to work. I don't want to talk about 2026 already. I want to move ahead. I want to get to work and get this budget passed." So nothing too surprising in that. That's Larry, a nose-to-the-grindstone rancher. I was surprised to hear today, on this network, that he is only the fifth West River governor. I was surprised by that.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Doc, West River governor, anything that surprised you about the transition? Anything that you were watching for that you saw unfold?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
I think the first thing you'll notice, I mean, look at us, we can't even let him get his hand in the air and we're already talking about 2026, right?
So this governor isn't looking for a microphone. This governor is already putting people and staff, like former Lieutenant Governor Matt Michels, who are known for running the departments like a Swiss watch. So that's the biggest change to me, but I don't think that's a big surprise to anybody.
Lori Walsh:
One of the things Governor Rhoden leads with is his passion, his leadership vision. Also, his military service, which goes back to the Revolutionary War. Matt Michels, a Navy man. So Patrick Lalley, we see strong military leadership as well, or veteran leadership, I should say, which would definitely change, perhaps, how the National Guard is viewed or used.
Anything that you're looking forward to in the partnership, especially, with Matt Michels in the governor's office as an advisor that you think people should be paying attention to?
Patrick Lalley:
Stability. And I think it goes back to this idea of, wouldn't it be nice to just be boring again? And love her or not, Governor Noem was never boring. And was, as we know, famously was aspirational.
I think what you're going to see with Governor Rhoden and his staff is that there's very little aspiration there, in terms of doing greater things beyond running the state of South Dakota. And very efficient, no surprises, really.
Get the job done. Go home. Have dinner. Go to bed.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Murdoc, does there need to be a reset with the press, with the legislators?
I know Larry Rhoden has been walking around up on the third floor, talking to people, shaking hands, talking to the press. What do you anticipate he will do in the transition part? Because people are used to a certain kind of governor and now that is changing.
Are there ways that you think he will demonstrate that change to people?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
That's a great question. Yes, but — and this is total speculation — not in a splashy way. I think we're going to all have to get used to Gov. Rhoden's metronome. It's not important that he makes the news. I think he'll probably be pretty quiet in the beginning, as far as staffing and changes. And do no harm, I would assume, be his first notion.
And as Patrick said, back to boring.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. We did hear at the press conference yesterday, where he said, "Hey, there was a time when you've all been asking me for interviews. It was not the right time for that. I definitely am hoping to give you some of those interviews in the days ahead."
So we've sent in our request, and we'll see if we can sit down with the new governor of South Dakota.
We are not done talking about Kristi Noem, of course, because she is now Secretary of Homeland Security. Although, Patrick Lalley, she was a little late to the party. Tell us what happened there.
Patrick Lalley:
Well, from what we read, from Politico and some others, she wanted a particular Bible, her dad's Bible, and it wasn't delivered on time. And so she wasn't able to make the appointment with Vice President Vance.
What was surprising to me was that, I didn't know this, you could just pop over to a Supreme Court justice's house and take the oath, which is what they did. They went to Clarence Thomas' house and took the oath of office, which was surprising.
How far down can you go? Do you have to be Supreme Court justice or higher? Or how does that work? But yeah, so she got sworn in. And it was late, and it's one of those things that doesn't matter, but it's funny.
Lori Walsh:
Brad Murdoc, anything about her swearing in that you found interesting and noteworthy here?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Maybe it makes me unpopular, but I think, Governor Noem, or Secretary Noem, is a polarizing figure. And there's a camp who will just never be a fan of her. I think that camp needs to learn when to take shots and when not to take shots. And this is, everybody was out there, "Ooh, they stood up." We can't do this for four years. Everybody relax.
Lori Walsh:
All right, so let's talk a little bit about some of the things that we're hearing about her job. Patrick Lalley, President Trump was already toying with this idea of what is FEMA for in the first place. Maybe it is important, maybe it's not, maybe it needs to be overhauled.
What did you hear from President Trump about FEMA that might impact Kristi Noem's leadership? And how do you think she might respond to that?
Patrick Lalley:
Well, he has been very critical of FEMA, using it as a cudgel, really, during the campaign, which is not surprising. Getting rid of FEMA is another question entirely.
You can put it on the states. Well, what does that mean?
And I think the details of that are going to be very difficult. I don't know that that would be good for South Dakota, if when our next emergency comes, and it will, and we want help, who's going to come help?
If it's on us, then that's going to be a different story altogether. So I think it's one thing to say you're going to eliminate FEMA, and maybe they make some changes.
Every government bureaucracy, every department, there's probably room for improvement. These are giant, giant government organizations, and there's probably plenty of things that they could do better. So I think that's probably where the discussion lands.
And that's going to fall very squarely on Secretary Noem's shoulders because that's going to involve a lot of time sitting in the Capitol building complex, taking questions from senators and representatives.
So I think that if they try and go ahead with that, it'll be very high profile. But I don't think you can eliminate it. I think they play too important of a role. There's a reason they're there, and it's to help people in their time of need.
We need to get past this posturing over California. If there's something to fix, fix it.
Lori Walsh:
And Murdoc, this is part of President Donald Trump's M.O. He's going to really deeply question the role of government. It gets people chasing the headlines, chasing whatever the next story is, sort of overindulging on news coverage and headlines.
And at the end of the day, there's a whole lot that has to come out of the wash. But he likes to ask those big questions.
Anything else that you saw in that you wanted to bring up?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
No, I think Patrick's good. It's largely theatrical. I think there'll be some changes. I think it's too soon to say if they're good, or bad.
Right now, it's just really headline-driven. But use South Dakota's emergencies for an example. The 1972 flood in Rapid City, the Missouri River floods along the southeast corridor, from Pierre on down to the southeast, I don't think we could have fixed any of them without some federal assistance.
It's just a Twitter post. I don't know what to say past that.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah, move on.
Patrick Lalley:
Yeah, yeah. And they haven't addressed the money. Okay, how would South Dakota ever pay for any of that? We're not going to.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Right.
Patrick Lalley:
We're not going to.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
And then there's the money.
Patrick Lalley:
Yep.
Lori Walsh:
But I think Brad brings up a really good point here, Patrick, and that's that it's a Twitter post.
We talked a little bit about how Governor Rhoden doesn't need to get the clicks, or click away the minutes on the media.
And then we immediately pivot to Kristi Noem when we're talking about her X account. And here she is in a jacket for ICE, doing a raid, talking about getting dirtbags off the street and I'm on it.
And it's Twitter post after Twitter post after Twitter post. Or X post after X post after X post, I should say.
And what are we as journalists to chase? What are we to just lay off of, and say, "Hey, you know what, that's just bait." And how do we get at these real policy issues?
And this is how we're going to pivot to your piece on the child care crisis. Before we pivot to that real policy, how do you think journalists are challenged in the days ahead, to figure out, well, when do we report on the X post or tweet and when do we just say, "Yep, that's a stunt," or "That's a little of theater that we don't need to participate in"?
What's your philosophy going forward?
Patrick Lalley:
I hate social media reporting. There are times when we end up having to do it and I don't like it. It's a short press release is what it is. But it's not real and it feels manipulative.
So for instance, to write a story today on Secretary Noem hitting the mean streets of New York to roust out the dirtbags, to me, it felt like Dirty Kristi. You know what I mean? Like Dirty Harry, "Go on punk. Make my day."
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
That's a great meme. That's a great meme, Patrick.
Patrick Lalley:
Thank you. Thank you. You can go ahead and make that one.
But I don't like that. Look what we're doing, look how great we are, and then never actually taking the time. Which going back to what you were talking about Governor Rhoden, taking the time to do the interviews, to be open to questions.
And anybody who's been reporting on state government for the past four or five years knows that nobody calls back. All right? Nobody in state government calls back. It's become very difficult to report on.
But, in my mind, when state government or any government doesn't respond, those are often the times where the best journalism is done. And I take that all the way back to Bill Janklow. We did the best stories when he wouldn't talk to us. So now we just have social media and they don't have to talk to anybody. They just post.
So my position is, refrain at all costs from basically trying to echo social media. There's no point. There's no journalism in that.
Lori Walsh:
On a podcast like Dakota Town Hall, Murdoc, how do you handle some of those? What's a distraction to you? And what's core for you to discuss with your guests?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
It sounds silly to say it this way, but we have the luxury to be an inch less journalist than journalism is. So we might phrase it in more of it being a pretty politically savvy move. In my heart of hearts, do I agree that using dirtbag is dangerous? And you don't have to prove any of this at 30,000 foot when she puts on the vest. It's not like she kicked in the door, but it is a stunt.
And listen, seven Senate Democrats voted for her. Look at that X post, and there are thousands of supporters. It's not that it's not a press release, it's that it's working. And it's the same move that got Donald Trump elected. And so you can be mad about it, but it's working.
Patrick Lalley:
Hey, Murdoc, I'm not sure she didn't kick down the door.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
That's fair.
Patrick Lalley:
Let's not assume that, right?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
If you're going to do it, do it all the way. Put on the vest, get a camera crew, get a light, like an old episode of "Cops." Yeah, that'd be awesome.
Lori Walsh:
I wanted to bring up, before we let you go, a little piece that Patrick Lalley had written that illustrates this idea of getting into a very difficult policy issue: the child care crisis. And you wanted to write about this, Patrick, with an update and outlining some of the history behind the challenges and where we're at right now.
Tell us a little bit about piece in Sioux Falls Life.
Patrick Lalley:
Well, what prompted it was the recent discussion at the state level, which is where state government comes in. And last summer we remember that there was a legislative study, and they found out that the DHS or DSS was already doing a study, or they were looking at this issue. And so they kind of melded it all together. And the results of that came out, I think, in October. And it's being discussed at the legislative level.
And South Dakota Public Broadcasting had an episode on the issue. And it got me back to where we started all this in Sioux Falls, which was, this issue is not new. Right? Let's remember that. I mean, this is decades old. But in 2016, some nonprofits that deal in child care like EmBe and the Boys and Girls Club, and different organizations, Lutheran Social Services, they all got together and they said, "This is getting really bad."
And it led to a progression. Thrive involved, which is an organization in Sioux Falls that's associated at some measure with the Sioux Falls Community Foundation, and they're dedicated to cradle to graduation, cradle to career development, of children in our communities.
They did a bunch of research through Augustana and the Beacom Research Fellows. This has been going on and on now for years, and study, and study, and research, and data. And they formed the Child Care Collaborative in Sioux Falls, that brought together all these resources. And even with Mayor TenHaken's help, created this task force, essentially, to come up with ideas.
And they did. And they presented to the city council, and it's got concrete steps for local government, state government, and private business to ease the burden on families so that they are able to come into the workforce and be productive parts of society.
We went through all that and the city council looked at it and they said, "The number one recommendation here is to create an office of child care development, early childhood." And they said, "No, but we want to look at it."
So we spend another $75,000, hired Justin Smith, who's a very well-known lobbyist and government affairs guy. He's going to study it. He came back with some stuff that was fine, but as I said in the story, there's no magic beans here. This issue isn't new. And it rises all the way to the state level. And it turns out that, as Tim Reed, who's been leading the charge on this, the senator from Brookings said, "It's really about money."
And I know how we can go all the way through this process, through all these government entities, and come back and that's the solution. Well, nobody's going to do that, so that's not a solution.
Nobody's going to spend money on child care in South Dakota in this current environment. Our former governor said, basically, "No, this is not government's place."
We'll never have pre-K. We'll never do any of the things that might be considered solutions. And so, as I wrote, "We keep calling it a crisis. If it was a crisis, somebody would do something." There's no crisis. It's just reality. It's economic reality for people who live day-to-day, trying to take care of their kids and just get by. They can't afford child care, so they drop out of the workforce. And if it's a workforce issue, then somebody would do something, and they're not. Nobody's going to do anything.
Lori Walsh:
Yeah. Murdoc, we hear it again and again, health care, disaster relief, climate change, all these problems, if money is attached to it, it becomes a very difficult thing to solve, especially in South Dakota where there isn't a ton of money just lying around in sacks and buckets.
What are you hearing? What did Patrick's piece bring up for you, either about child care specifically or about how it relates to other issues?
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
We've been lucky enough, I think, out west to watch the state and Sioux Falls do some of these studies and all of that. But they're the same entities. I've been in meetings about Tri-Share, and I've been meetings with Elevate Rapid City, about, "Oh my God, what are we going to do?" And no one really seems to have an answer. And the daycares are all full. Running the business of a daycare is also modeled to be almost impossible in today's rules and regulations and what it costs.
And then on top of that, as Patrick's story was well-written and pointed out, it's so expensive. It's money. It's about money, and no one wants to front it, everyone just wants to talk about it.
Lori Walsh:
So you can find that on Sioux Falls Live. We'll put some links on our website. And you can listen to Dakota Town Hall wherever you get your podcasts. Also, the Dakota Political Junkies is its own podcast. So you can binge on all kinds of South Dakota politics listening.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
I do. Your show's great too. I listen to it all the time.
Lori Walsh:
It's the mutual admiration society. Thanks so much for being here, both of you. Appreciate your time.
Brad "Murdoc" Jurgensen:
Thank you.
Patrick Lalley:
Thank you, Lori.
